Are Magazines A Necessary Component To A Firearm.

[arakboss]

"State Defendants object to the Court's finding that the "a magazine is a necessary component of a firearm.""

Are there any mag fed firearms that couldn't be easily modified to fire a single handloaded round without a magazine in the firearm?

Thinking about all the mag fed firearms I own, it seems like every one could be made to fire a round without the magazine installed. In some cases a mag safety disconnect would have to be removed or bypassed. You would obviously have to hand feed rounds one at a time but I could see where some might accept the State's suggestion that the magazine isn't a necessary component to fire a round.

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[arakboss]

You know how much ammo we would save if everyone had to handfeed their firearms one round at a time.

 

[Diamondback]

Where do they think it comes from, the Ammo Fairy hikes skirt and craps one into the chamber?

 

[CamoDeafie]

The firearms will not be semiautomatic, nor be a repeater/repeating if not for a magazine.

So, yes magazines in one form or other are integral to the operation of repeating firearms including the much-maligned by media semiautomatic ""assault"" rifles.

 

[trekkerpaul]

I think you should throw away all your mags and start hand feeding 1 round every time you shoot. Let us know how that goes.

 

[arakboss]

Where do they think it comes from, the Ammo Fairy hikes skirt and craps one into the chamber?

I assume that they don't feel it's necessary to have an on board supply of ammo for a firearm to operate. The simple legal definition of a firearm doesn't require it to be self-loading.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I assume that they don't feel it's necessary to have an on board supply of ammo for a firearm to operate. The simple legal definition of a firearm doesn't require it to be self-loading.

No, but it's setting up for a simple justification for States to ban all semiautomatic weapons and restrict repeating weapons by saying they aren't the only firearms available and that they weren't in "common use" at the time of 2A ratification, and thus "doesn't violate 2A"

 

[arakboss]

The firearms will not be semiautomatic, nor be a repeater/repeating if not for a magazine.

So, yes magazines in one form or other are integral to the operation of repeating firearms including the much-maligned by media semiautomatic ""assault"" rifles.

I believe the argument was whether a magazine was necessary component of a firearm, not a repeating firearm. Oregon's legal definition of a firearm is:

DEFINITIONS: Firearm: A weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile. by the action of powder

Is a magazine necessary for a weapon to meet that definition?

 

[arakboss]

No, but it's setting up for a simple justification for States to ban all semiautomatic weapons and restrict repeating weapons by saying they aren't the only firearms available and that they weren't in "common use" at the time of 2A ratification, and thus "doesn't violate 2A"

I think that is what Oregon is trying to do.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I think that is what Oregon is trying to do.

It's pretty clear from all their supposedly failed anti2a bills that is exactly what they're trying to do, find a "legal" way to ban all semiautomatic and restrict repeating weapons (levers, bolt actions, tube fed)

 

[ODG_Chad]

It should also be acknowledged that when hand loading a semi auto, you need to try and slip the case into the extractor, otherwise you are going to break it after dropping it on the case enough times. Possibly even the first time as most mass produced semi autos these days use a MIM extractor, as far as I know.

Otherwise you're also stuck trying to pull that case out by hand after every shot in a gun that is not designed to make that easy to do.

 

[CamoDeafie]

It should also be acknowledged that when hand loading a semi auto, you need to try and slip the case into the extractor, otherwise you are going to break it after dropping it on the case enough times. Possibly even the first time as most mass produced semi autos these days use a MIM extractor, as far as I know.

Otherwise you're also stuck trying to pull that case out by hand after every shot in a gun that is not designed to make that easy to do.

But.. do they (anti 2A pols) care?

 

[arakboss]

It should also be acknowledged that when hand loading a semi auto, you need to try and slip the case into the extractor, otherwise you are going to break it after dropping it on the case enough times. Possibly even the first time as most mass produced semi autos these days use a MIM extractor, as far as I know.

Otherwise you're also stuck trying to pull that case out by hand after every shot in a gun that is not designed to make that easy to do.

I have loaded many cartridges this way and believe the extractor damage problem is overhyped. The extractor has to slip over the case regardless of whether the cartridge is in the mag or in the chamber.

 

[ODG_Chad]

I have loaded many cartridges this way and believe the extractor damage problem is overhyped. The extractor has to slip over the case regardless of whether the cartridge is in the mag or in the chamber.

Fair enough. It's still an extra complication that shouldn't be necessary.

 

[jackrv]

You know how much ammo we would save if everyone had to handfeed their firearms one round at a time.

Mr. Sam Colt solved that problem

 

[kmk1012]

I know my Ruger SR22 will NOT fire without the mag in it, as well as every firearm with a mag disconnect. Should be case closed with that info.

 

[Koda]

I have loaded many cartridges this way and believe the extractor damage problem is overhyped. The extractor has to slip over the case regardless of whether the cartridge is in the mag or in the chamber.

Depends on the firearm.
The case slips up from under the extractor in some designs like the 1911, and can damage the 1911 extractor if repeatedly forced to spring over

 

[arakboss]

Here is the Plaintiffs (see Aiello statement in bold) response to the State's objection about magazines being a necessary component of a firearm.


• That a firearm magazine is a "necessary component of a firearm."
The court's findings are contrary to testimony at trial, in which "every historical expert" testified about the existence of firearms without magazines, such as muzzle-loading muskets, Wilson wrote.

Aiello said testimony didn't show any modern-day firearm operates without a fixed or detached magazine.


Maybe the testimony was incomplete because I could list many firearms still manufactured today that don't use magazines. Here is a wrist breaker I wouldn't mind owning.

Bond Arms | Cyclops 45-70

www.bondarms.com

Here are some rifles that don't use magazines.

Single Shot Rifle | Henry Repeating Arms

Time stands still for nobody, including Henry Repeating Arms. We’ve built our name and reputation on America’s most extensive line of lever actions, and that’s what most of the firearms world thinks of when our name comes up. But we’ve felt for quite a while now, that there’s more we could be...

www.henryusa.com

Here are some more buried in this list.

Single Shot Rifles | Sportsman's Warehouse

Single Shot Rifles for sale online or in-store at Sportsman's Warehouse. Find a full selection of single shot rifles from top rifle manufacturers at the best prices.

www.sportsmans.com

Some handgun varieties are buried here.

https://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/departments/firearms/handguns/single-shot.html

 

[Koda]

The vast majority of modern guns use a magazine, to suggest they are not necessary part of a gun is a lie. Even lever guns from the 1800s had magazines.

 

[arakboss]

I double checked the schematic and nope, no magazine needed for this ugly duckling.