Moms demand in Portland: Fred Meyer OC ban

[TastyWheat87]

Make sure to vote in the poll if you have not already.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._to_moms_petition.html#incart_related_stories

Current poll results:

Should Fred Meyer continue allowing customers to openly carry guns?
Yes - the company is simply adhering to local laws. 87.22% (1,992 votes)

No - I don't want the possibility of seeing guns when I'm shopping. 10.99% (251 votes)

Other - please comment below 2% (41 votes)

Total Votes: 2,284

 

[Gunner3456]

And in WA the only thing they can do if they find out is to ask you to leave. At that point you either must leave or you COULD be arrested. So far I've never been asked to leave anywhere even from Van Mall or Clackamas.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Golden Eagle member
WAC member

And your point is?

I go into Freddies about once a week. If they put a gun ban sign on the door and I carried anyway, they'd ask me to leave. Let's assume I would, of course.

Then if I continued to go in carrying, they could have me arrested for trespassing.

THE point is that if we put guns in the faces of people who don't like them, we risk losing our rights. It's just that simple.

 

[CoastRange57]

And your point is?

I go into Freddies about once a week. If they put a gun ban sign on the door and I carried anyway, they'd ask me to leave. Let's assume I would, of course.

I work part time Loss Prevention at a retail store of 14,000 square feet. Most people who come to the store cannot even read the sign that says " Push" to open the door, or the sign that says " No Backpacks" in 2 different spots at the entry.

"Oh, I did not see that sign". The one at eye level on the door and the one on a standard 6 feet inside the door ?? That sign ?? So expecting most anybody to see and obey any sign is not going to happen. An open carry in this store would not cause alarm, but we would probably engage the person in conversation to assess the situation.

Of course when you have a what I call a strike team enter the store, 3 people within 4 minutes of closing time, they split and case the store, warehouse and cash registers, and we need to put 2 to 3 people on them to flush them out, and break their pace, signs don't mean shot to most people. Hearing two way radio conversations about themselves sure makes them move on though.

 

[RPS]

Put it in perspective also that these are mothers as well. They are that misinformed and they breed. God help us all. This isn't even an issue and each one of the people who signed that letter would be happy to have a gun when they get held up on the way out to their card by a meth head who wants her groceries and purse.

Sad commentary and flat out absurd. The problem here isn't the guy buying groceries who has an open carry permit, it's the guy or gal next to him who judges him right up until they need him.

 

[TastyWheat87]

THE point is that if we put guns in the faces of people who don't like them, we risk losing our rights. It's just that simple.

Rights are not granted, therefore they cannot be taken away.

My individual right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is protected by my Second Amendment right to KEEP and BEAR arms. Please point to which part of the Constitution allows the government, or a grocery store, to limit those rights.

 

[accessbob]

Sad commentary and flat out absurd. The problem here isn't the guy buying groceries who has an open carry permit, it's the guy or gal next to him who judges him right up until they need him.

Strange statement - Open Carry Permit - no such beast exists. Did you accidentally write "open" instead of "concealed?"

 

[deen_ad]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

Strange statement - Open Carry Permit - no such beast exists. Did you accidentally write "open" instead of "concealed?"

Don't you need a concealed license to open carry in Portland?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
Defender of Freedom Award
Washington Arms Collector Member
Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[etrain16]

<- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!



Don't you need a concealed license to open carry in Portland?

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
NRA Golden Eagle member
Defender of Freedom Award
Washington Arms Collector Member
Vancouver Rifle & Pistol Club member
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

I believe that's anywhere in Multnomah County - the new laws they passed back in April 2013 (if I recall the date correctly) basically prohibited anyone from having a loaded gun in public - the only exceptions are those they are restricted by State law (preemption) from exempting - and that would be those with current CHL's. So I believe you are correct - it's just not limited only to Portland.

 

[etrain16]

Rights are not granted, therefore they cannot be taken away.

My individual right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is protected by my Second Amendment right to KEEP and BEAR arms. Please point to which part of the Constitution allows the government, or a grocery store, to limit those rights.

The Constitution doesn't necessarily address it, though some would point to the 5th amendment regarding personal property rights. Freddy's or any other private property owner's rights have been well defined over decades and decades of case law and legal interpretations. Both First and Second Amendments have been shown, up to the SCOTUS level, to have restrictions with particular emphasis on someone else's private property. Basically, it's their property and they have the right, as the property owner, to restrict what you do on their private property - the same rights you have with your personal property. So yes, they do have a right to restrict what you can and can't do. Yes, you have your rights, but your rights don't supersede the rights of a property owner in most cases. Like it or not, we need to continue to appeal to places like Fred Meyer to maintain an open policy on their property, as they've already done, because legally, they don't have to.

Maybe an actual legal person could explain it better, but that's the best I can do with my limited understanding of the law.

 

[RPS]

Strange statement - Open Carry Permit - no such beast exists. Did you accidentally write "open" instead of "concealed?"

I did, I was replying and got caught up in a conversation. More my point was that the majority of folks would love to have a person with a concealed weapon around if danger presented itself and that concealed weapon was used correctly.

Thanks for the catch.

 

[RB87]

And your point is?

I go into Freddies about once a week. If they put a gun ban sign on the door and I carried anyway, they'd ask me to leave. Let's assume I would, of course.

Then if I continued to go in carrying, they could have me arrested for trespassing.

THE point is that if we put guns in the faces of people who don't like them, we risk losing our rights. It's just that simple.

Perhaps we should call these people who don't like guns hoplophobes (spell check that one ) more often and get in their face about it. Maybe pass some hate crime or hate speech laws specifically banning hoplophobic speech or actions?

A lot of this is simply the typical "their oughta be a law!" by the emotional terrorist Moms (they've learned well from MADD and others) and those who would appease them. Should we have laws about what weapons can be openly carried in which type of place you are in, be it town, city, suburb, rural, urban? How large of a city before you can't open carry a rifle or pistol? I'd be more sympathetic to the Moms and those here who would appease them if I didn't have to have a special permit (for a right...?) to carry a weapon concealed to defend myself with. I understand the pragmatic approach here to dealing with groups like Moms Demand but you can be so pragmatic as to compromise your beliefs away.

I've seen the long game here on this issue up close a few years ago. It was walking by a mailbox type structure on a street corner in London extolling her majesty's subjects to "get a life, bin that knife!". Turn in your 3'' or longer knives anonymously into the box and make society a safer place. This was not long after they had riots in several cities. As mentioned here on this forum the other day by a member from the UK, there are a lot of new baseball fans over there in UK lately.

 

[Gunner3456]

Rights are not granted, therefore they cannot be taken away.

My individual right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is protected by my Second Amendment right to KEEP and BEAR arms. Please point to which part of the Constitution allows the government, or a grocery store, to limit those rights.

I think etrain did a nice job of explaining it. If you're carrying, I suggest you take a class on gun laws.

 

[TastyWheat87]

I think etrain did a nice job of explaining it. If you're carrying, I suggest you take a class on gun laws.

Thanks for your concern, but yours is the kind of mindset that continues to let limits and regulations be placed upon our Second Amendment rights. I suggest you read the constitution, here is an excerpt which it seems you have never heard of.

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.*

*Provided all waiting periods have lapsed, taxes and fees have been paid (permits), and only in areas not designated as a gun free zone, subject to final approval by the US Government.**

**Unless you are a criminal, then disregard all laws as you would normally do, by definition of being a criminal.

Of course the stuff I underlined is not really a part of the Second Amendment, nor the Constitution. There is a process to modify existing Amendments, and it's called, wait for it...an AMENDMENT to the Constitution. I'm not advocating breaking the law, but OC in Fred Meyer (depending on local ordinances) is not a violation of law. I am advocating for the removal of all bullbubblegum laws which have been added one on top of another and done nothing to deter crime. We have a right to defend ourselves, our friends, our families.

Look at Clackamas Town Center, Sandy Hook, Aurora theater. All gun free zones, all places where people were shot to death by people who don't follow the rules (did you know that not only were they gun-free zones, but it's also illegal to mass-murder people in cold blood?) None of these places have any security measures in place to protect the citizens within the facility. It's up to us to defend ourselves, and that starts with peacefully pressing hard for the removal of restrictions on the law-abiding citizen because criminals clearly don't give a bubblegum and use these venues as killing fields.

</ENDRANT>

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Assault and attempted kidnaping in the Kennewick Fred Meyer parking lot June 22, 2014 at 1859 hours.

<broken link removed>

 

[Gunner3456]

Thanks for your concern, but yours is the kind of mindset that continues to let limits and regulations be placed upon our Second Amendment rights. I suggest you read the constitution, here is an excerpt which it seems you have never heard of.

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.*

*Provided all waiting periods have lapsed, taxes and fees have been paid (permits), and only in areas not designated as a gun free zone, subject to final approval by the US Government.**

**Unless you are a criminal, then disregard all laws as you would normally do, by definition of being a criminal.

Of course the stuff I underlined is not really a part of the Second Amendment, nor the Constitution. There is a process to modify existing Amendments, and it's called, wait for it...an AMENDMENT to the Constitution. I'm not advocating breaking the law, but OC in Fred Meyer (depending on local ordinances) is not a violation of law. I am advocating for the removal of all bullbubblegum laws which have been added one on top of another and done nothing to deter crime. We have a right to defend ourselves, our friends, our families.

Look at Clackamas Town Center, Sandy Hook, Aurora theater. All gun free zones, all places where people were shot to death by people who don't follow the rules (did you know that not only were they gun-free zones, but it's also illegal to mass-murder people in cold blood?) None of these places have any security measures in place to protect the citizens within the facility. It's up to us to defend ourselves, and that starts with peacefully pressing hard for the removal of restrictions on the law-abiding citizen because criminals clearly don't give a bubblegum and use these venues as killing fields.

</ENDRANT>

That's quite the rant considering that private property owners have the right to prohibit you from carrying on their property. This isn't government control, it's property rights. You can't just come on my property and do anything you want, and that includes carry a gun.

If I don't know you and you come onto my property carrying a gun, you probably won't be welcome back.

If on the other hand it's concealed and I don't know it, then you'll skate free.

I'm advocating that people carry concealed rather than open into private businesses to avoid having those businesses put up "no gun" signs. Out of sight is out of mind.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Why is this such a hot topic and bandwidth clog ?

If some one is stupid enough to attract attention to themselves by carrying an AR 15, people are going to look at you. Duh. I am going to look at you in a threat assessment process...if you are carrying an AR 15 in a store,then you need to be assessed as to your potential threat level. Just because you can does not always make it a good idea.

Concealed carry means concealed, no body needs to know, nobody should know because your method of concealment should prevent any one from seeing your weapon..right ?? Concealed ???.

I will go about my shopping in my usual manner, very aware of what is going on around me for several aisles and up front as well. Knowing where all exits are and the fastest way to get there.

So with that mentality gays and lesbians should just hide their real selves?

Gay means gay but dont flaunt it? Like that line of thinking is what you mean?

Seriously show me the guys who "did" OC rifles in Freddies. This is a false flag claim by the antis and is so rare its not worth wasting breath over.

 

[TastyWheat87]

That's quite the rant considering that private property owners have the right to prohibit you from carrying on their property. This isn't government control, it's property rights. You can't just come on my property and do anything you want, and that includes carry a gun.

If I don't know you and you come onto my property carrying a gun, you probably won't be welcome back.

If on the other hand it's concealed and I don't know it, then you'll skate free.

I'm advocating that people carry concealed rather than open into private businesses to avoid having those businesses put up "no gun" signs. Out of sight is out of mind.

Property owners (major public-serving corporations, specifically) only have those rights because we let them have that kind of control. We need to demand change from our lawmakers, and see to it that our right to life, liberty and defense are preserved and upheld.

When is the last time a major corporation or employer went out of business, or even closed a location due to a murder, or a mass murder occurring on their property? The answer you are looking for is never...this has never happened.

When is the last time a corporation or employer was sued for failing to protect its patrons? Never. Sandy Hook parents are suing Bushmaster...maybe they should sue the school district. The Colorado Theater victims should sue the Aurora Theater instead of ammo distributors. That may effect some change.

When is the last time a person or persons lost life and limb due to a crazy dirt bag killing someone for their Xbox, wallet, or just to take lives in cold blood? I lost count, because this happens all the time. Corporations and employers are never responsible for failing to secure their premises against these types of maniacs.

If corporations and employers have no mechanism in place to protect their patrons and employees, they should have no right to dictate how a private citizen guarantees their own security. The pieces of human garbage that perpetrate senseless acts of violence upon the law-abiding do not respect the laws, or store policies in place. Why is the law-abiding citizen required to surrender defense, life and limb in order to buy groceries or earn a paycheck? (I'm looking at you, Whole Foods. I'll buy my hippie goods at Fred Meyer's nutrition section.)

I recommend that you begin to think freely, and not like a boot licking servant, Gunner3456.

 

[bnsaibum]

If corporations and employers have no mechanism in place to protect their patrons and employees, they should have no right to dictate how a private citizen guarantees their own security.

I recommend that you begin to think freely, and not like a boot licking servant, Gunner3456.

One could make any number of analogous arguments about any Right that follow your "if...then" example. It doesn't wash. Corporate "rights" aside, you are still free (mostly) to choose where to shop regardless of the policy of a private property holder.

You should continue with your last recommendation instead of stopping in the middle.

 

[TastyWheat87]

One could make any number of analogous arguments about any Right that follow your "if...then" example. It doesn't wash. Corporate "rights" aside, you are still free (mostly) to choose where to shop regardless of the policy of a private property holder.

You should continue with your last recommendation instead of stopping in the middle.

You're one of those guys that's okay with a little more "compromise" year after year, aren't you?

 

[bnsaibum]

You're one of those guys that's okay with a little more "compromise" year after year, aren't you?

You've heard the saying about making assumptions, haven't you?