Maybe the NRA was right after all, huh?

[Swedish K]

I am not a LEO hater. I was once having a convo sitting on the couch with my uncle whom is currently a sacto co deputy sheriff. He made a joke to me that the last time he shot his sig was at qualification and he hadn't even cleaned it since. My father whom was also a sacto county deputy sheriff also has less than steller hand gunning skills. Sorry dad... This is not some underfunded po-dunk department. This is the county sheriff department where the captiol resides

Don't think for a second that the popo are any more " professional " than you are I.

Duane - funny you should mention Sac county - less than 10 years ago Sac SWAT showed up at the PPC match I shot in monthly. Of the entire swat team one guy placed near the middle another guy 3 below him, and the rest were at the bottom of the barrel. Even the exterminator from Folsom prison who normally was in the bottom 3 did better than the "team". I understand your average cop who never practices not doing so well, but the Special Weapons and Tactics guys? The ones who are supposed to be the best in the department? Seriously?

I carried a rife to school for "show and tell" in Oregon no less...1955, Seaside.

hermannr - in about 1985 the principal lived down the street from me - he heard we were going pheasant hunting after school and asked if he could tag along - I picked up his shotgun and shells on lunch and walked straight through the school to the office with not a second glance... at the time half the pickup trucks in the student parking lot had a shotgun and a 22 in the rear window rack and no one said a thing - this was in northern Colorado.

 

[Diamondback]

Like I've said before...

1985, when I was a kid: live .45 rounds, with no delivery platform = a hit at Show & Tell.
Today: even a spent cartridge, no launcher = immediate expulsion and criminal charges.

W T F?! Have schools and kids really changed THAT much in my lifetime? If so, maybe we need to abolish the war-zone of Public Education...

 

[U201491]

I wish we could go back in time and ask the staff & Teachers of Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Columbine etc in their last moments on this earth if they thought for one second, "thank God I have no means to defend myself or my students from the madman that is making his way to our classroom"

We can play all the "what if" etc until hell freezes over, but if you or I were cornered by a closing gunman, with students looking to us to keep them alive, would any of this "top shot" come into play?

It's not by chance that these nut cases choose "gun free victim zones" they don't want to risk somebody that can shoot back!

That is precisely what they chose in every case.
There are a few good teachers in most schools that would be good candidates to be armed and with some fairly good tactical training would be excellent guardians of the children while in school. Sorting them out according to good mental stability would be challenging but worthwhile. I think even an added bit to their pay might be in order were the qualified willing to accept the responsibility.
Some serious tactical as well as mental training should be a major requirement. In their zones there will be many innocents to protect not only from an active shooter but from themself in that situation as well.
Not mentioned much, but 100% retention of their firearm must be taught and practiced at all times.
A firearm taken by a student would end the program and be a field day by the braindead leftist media.
I would love to see an armed teacher response effort in every school. It is the correct thing to do.
_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !

 

[rick benjamin]

Where'd you serve? I'm guessing from your profile photo you were possibly army, in the 80's when our forces were at their least professional, and possibly never left the us.
Added: I saw no mention of the military on your about you page, and makes your response all that dumber. It is true that not everyone is cut out to serve.

You peeked?:winkkiss: So you know about where I live! I'm 6 miles from the DRRC 1,000 yd line.
Measure from there to Damascus, and you should be in the ballpark.
So, I looked at your profile. All empty spaces. Not even a photo.
I wonder about you being a teacher. I don't see organization in your texts.
And you sure got a temper! Are you a wannabe? Just asking!

Some stuff about me? I don't think there's room in the profile page, but here goes.
My time in the Marines was good and not so good
I had some excellent adventures, between the times of Gavno.
You know any Russian?
My Commander-in-Chief was The Peanut Farmer.
A major portion of my platoon was doing drugs. I was intolerent of that.
I was the platoon sgt so I went to the Commander about it.
He said "we aren't going to do anything about it."
I left the Corps about 8 months before President Reagan was sworn into office.
A recruiter friend told me about those repercussions. Everyone got drug tested,
Whoever tested positive above E6 was separated. Wished I'd stayed for that rodeo.

I am more than somewhat ignorant.
The things I don't know are on heavy side of the scale.

There is stuff I do know. I know a lot about a lot of guns, and how to fix them.
I know a lot about electronics, and electricity.

Here's some pics of what I worked on. The mickey mouse ear thingie was made
by Raytheon, it's the AN MPQ 46 Hi-Pwr Illuminator Radar (my baby). The flamie thingie is
a HAWK surface to air missile departing an XM151 launcher. 14ft dart-cruciform, 1295lbs of
solid fuel, electronics, and a basketball sized explosive packed with 1 inch ball bearings.
A monster claymore.

 

[BoonDocks36]

@ renfield

I can not believe your posts to be serious.

You state "100%" ability of effective use of a fire arm to defend the students? Yet, DO YOU provide 100% of the education to your High School students, that you CAN teach? Or does it sometimes ~fall~ to 98% percent? /sarcasm ...

ONE Thing that I learned in My VietNam Training, is nothing is One Hundred Percent, except Death & Taxes, and I will add to that, Maybe, the hubris in the Dumbing of Teachers, by the National Educational Association.

Before I KNEW, what I KNOW now, I could tell the NEA, was an orginization, Not designed to benefit Students, but to create More Money for teachers.

When I discovered the Direct involvement with Communists, in the NEA, I understood what I knew before!

William Ayers is one of the leading Professors, to Teach PROFESSORS, who teach teachers.... And would be the First person to congradulate you on your Perfect 100% Indoctrination.

You drank His KOOL-AID.


A ~Teacher~ protecting students??? That is ~Not~ their JOB!!! GUNS in Schools? No Way, to dangerous!

Bah. To dangerous for a School Teacher to do.... Tell me, what level of First Aid do you have, on you credentials?

Basic, or ~Medium Skills~, Advanced?

Now come on, you were a Paratrooper, what amount of Life Saving Skill, is present, in your class, in case a student stabs another student?

CAN you DO IT???

One Hundred Percent of the time? Do you practice? Those are Not Sarcastic questions, BTW, I am dead serious in them. How many LIVES have You SAVED with your FIRST AID TRAINING.

I knew CPR, when I was fifteen, and passed my First AID class by Red Cross Trained Instructers. The Army Basic Training did nothing to improve my already learned knowledge, Save This.

We never were taught "sucking chest wounds" & other Combat, type wounds, and of course "CBR" training.

Now in my Sixty Three years of age, I Have saved One Life, and yet I watched a Dedicated TEAM doing team CPR, upon my Mother, in Respiratory Arrest. As we were walking into her & Dad's 40th Wedding Anniversary.... She collapsed.

Yeah. Dad; was a Certified Advanced First Aid Instructer, for His Company. Three Certified First Responders doing the "Work", Plus One ER NURSE, my Brother, another First Responder, me, an EMT2 (B) and in the room of 250 More people, Six RN's, and several More First Responders, and FA Instructers, all certified.

My mom died.

You Suggest: 100 Percent ability to perform, I say Hog Wash, NEA Brainwashing. nothing is One Hundred Percent, except, Death & Taxes, I am not to sure about the latter....

But, renfield, here is one you did not think of:

Not mentioned much, but 100% retention of their firearm must be taught and practiced at all times.

After that Idea...

I will add this: And I would state emphatically, I would rather have ONE fired shot That Missed Target, but maybe gave the gunman bad guy time to think twice.... Than ZERO rounds fired, and dozens of dead or wounded students, behind a dead teacher

 

[renfield]

You peeked?:winkkiss: So you know about where I live! I'm 6 miles from the DRRC 1,000 yd line.
Measure from there to Damascus, and you should be in the ballpark.
So, I looked at your profile. All empty spaces. Not even a photo.
I wonder about you being a teacher. I don't see organization in your texts.
And you sure got a temper! Are you a wannabe? Just asking!

Some stuff about me? I don't think there's room in the profile page, but here goes.
My time in the Marines was good and not so good
I had some excellent adventures, between the times of Gavno.
You know any Russian?
My Commander-in-Chief was The Peanut Farmer.
A major portion of my platoon was doing drugs. I was intolerent of that.
I was the platoon sgt so I went to the Commander about it.
He said "we aren't going to do anything about it."
I left the Corps about 8 months before President Reagan was sworn into office.
A recruiter friend told me about those repercussions. Everyone got drug tested,
Whoever tested positive above E6 was separated. Wished I'd stayed for that rodeo.

I am more than somewhat ignorant.
The things I don't know are on heavy side of the scale.

There is stuff I do know. I know a lot about a lot of guns, and how to fix them.
I know a lot about electronics, and electricity.

Here's some pics of what I worked on. The mickey mouse ear thingie was made
by Raytheon, it's the AN MPQ 46 Hi-Pwr Illuminator Radar (my baby). The flamie thingie is
a HAWK surface to air missile departing an XM151 launcher. 14ft dart-cruciform, 1295lbs of
solid fuel, electronics, and a basketball sized explosive packed with 1 inch ball bearings.
A monster claymore.

I don't need to advertise, I know what I've done in the service of my country and my people. As for anything else you have to say, I have as much respect for that as you do for me. I used to have some respect for you guys, but over the years I've learned that anyone who served post Vietnam and up to the Persian Gulf, have turned out to be half baked, mentally ill D _ _ _s, that think they know how everything is, and who should never have even considered enlisting.

 

[renfield]

@ renfield

I can not believe your posts to be serious.

You state "100%" ability of effective use of a fire arm to defend the students? Yet, DO YOU provide 100% of the education to your High School students, that you CAN teach? Or does it sometimes ~fall~ to 98% percent? /sarcasm ...

ONE Thing that I learned in My VietNam Training, is nothing is One Hundred Percent, except Death & Taxes, and I will add to that, Maybe, the hubris in the Dumbing of Teachers, by the National Educational Association.

Before I KNEW, what I KNOW now, I could tell the NEA, was an orginization, Not designed to benefit Students, but to create More Money for teachers.

When I discovered the Direct involvement with Communists, in the NEA, I understood what I knew before!

William Ayers is one of the leading Professors, to Teach PROFESSORS, who teach teachers.... And would be the First person to congradulate you on your Perfect 100% Indoctrination.

You drank His KOOL-AID.


A ~Teacher~ protecting students??? That is ~Not~ their JOB!!! GUNS in Schools? No Way, to dangerous!

Bah. To dangerous for a School Teacher to do.... Tell me, what level of First Aid do you have, on you credentials?

Basic, or ~Medium Skills~, Advanced?

Now come on, you were a Paratrooper, what amount of Life Saving Skill, is present, in your class, in case a student stabs another student?

CAN you DO IT???

One Hundred Percent of the time? Do you practice? Those are Not Sarcastic questions, BTW, I am dead serious in them. How many LIVES have You SAVED with your FIRST AID TRAINING.

I knew CPR, when I was fifteen, and passed my First AID class by Red Cross Trained Instructers. The Army Basic Training did nothing to improve my already learned knowledge, Save This.

We never were taught "sucking chest wounds" & other Combat, type wounds, and of course "CBR" training.

Now in my Sixty Three years of age, I Have saved One Life, and yet I watched a Dedicated TEAM doing team CPR, upon my Mother, in Respiratory Arrest. As we were walking into her & Dad's 40th Wedding Anniversary.... She collapsed.

Yeah. Dad; was a Certified Advanced First Aid Instructer, for His Company. Three Certified First Responders doing the "Work", Plus One ER NURSE, my Brother, another First Responder, me, an EMT2 (B) and in the room of 250 More people, Six RN's, and several More First Responders, and FA Instructers, all certified.

My mom died.

You Suggest: 100 Percent ability to perform, I say Hog Wash, NEA Brainwashing. nothing is One Hundred Percent, except, Death & Taxes, I am not to sure about the latter....

But, renfield, here is one you did not think of:

After that Idea...

I will add this: And I would state emphatically, I would rather have ONE fired shot That Missed Target, but maybe gave the gunman bad guy time to think twice.... Than ZERO rounds fired, and dozens of dead or wounded students, behind a dead teacher

How is drawing a comparison between education and how effective a teacher with a gun would be in an emergency situation the same thing? And no, US schools do not currently delivery 100% of anything. US schools are underfunded, and the curriculum is designed to get students through graduation, which looks good on paper, rather than providing education. Teachers are unable to be 100% effective. Your answer to that seems to be either "add more guns" or "scrap public education." My students got 100% of my attention, empathy and commitment. Veterans who should be able to see the dangers of putting under trained armed personnel in high risk situations where the lives of children are involved, and Old men who should know better get nothing. I am sorry for your mothers passing.

 

[The B]

Lotta combat vets out there would love a good paying job being a full-time school tactical officer. One guy could easily guard a whole school, and you'd only need one shift, 5 days a week- that's how schools operate. Mk18, plate carrier, and a grab bag of 30-rounders in the office... soft armor under uniform, Glock 17, and an array of spare mags on his person. Lots of paid trigger time at the local LE range.

Problem solved... at least until school active shooters evolve FoF skills.

 

[slimmer13]

My kid will be going to Spokane Public Schools this year. Couldn't be happier.

 

[renfield]

Why do liberals insist on sex education in the classroom, but resist firearms education ?

Answer: They don't really care about the kids but about pushing forward the socialist agenda.

Hey Bacchus, here's an answer to your inquiry about sex ed and firearms training in schools: Truck driver dies after shooting himself in the penis - MSN Him UK

 

[The B]

I figure it would cost 6.5 billion a year, or so, to put an officer in every school, and pay him $50k/year, give him 5,000 rounds of training ammo, arm him, and give him some bennys for the family.

6.5 bil is expensive, but it's about 0.4% of the 1.4 trillion we spent on defense last year, and it would STOP mass shootings in schools.

 

[renfield]

I figure it would cost 6.5 billion a year, or so, to put an officer in every school, and pay him $50k/year, give him 5,000 rounds of training ammo, arm him, and give him some bennys for the family.

6.5 bil is expensive, but it's about 0.4% of the 1.4 trillion we spent on defense last year, and it would STOP mass shootings in schools.

That's a lot of money that could be used to improve education as a whole, they could also fence off schools, and put a single guard with a metal detector on the gate. I've seen them in Europe, they keep creeps out and the kids in.

 

[RoneKiln]

A lot of the schools mass shooting have occurred at had armed security. Columbine had two on hand. Virginia Tech had its own small police department. Even if you put an armed guard in every single room, a whack job knows who to shoot first with no warning. Armed security hasn't stopped shooters in the past, and while it may reduce the risk a little, it's far from a solution. Unless you're only looking for how to reassure people. In that case, it's great for creating a false sense of security.

Mass shootings are ridiculously rare. I don't want my kids being shown that fear of the rare occurrence should lead to building your entire environment to try to eliminate all risk. Building their schools like fortresses is teaching them that it's ok to go to extreme lengths to counter minor risks. It's teaching them that those in charge are tasked with keeping them safe from all the dangers of the world.

I'd rather teach my kids to confront the danger of the world and still live without constant fear. Without being constantly guarded by "Big Brother." Don't teach my kids that they need an authority figure from the government looking out for them every step of the way. Even if that's never stated in curriculum, it would still be subtly showing it. We're moving too close in the direction of a totalitarian state as it is.

Teachers don't really need to be armed. Criminals need to be in doubt of which teachers may be armed. Offer at cost or further subsidized training to any teacher that wants it and publicize the hell out of it. Let the entire world know that any of those teachers MIGHT be armed, and that there's no way to ever know which ones are. That will do far more to dissuade bad guys than armed security. Even if not a single teacher ever chooses to carry (we all know many would).

Even when accounting for inflation, we spend far more money on education for each student than we did a generation ago. Money is not the problem. Holding parents and the kids accountable is the problem. Not too long ago a student that did poorly in school got in trouble when the parents found out. Now the teacher gets in trouble when the parents find out. That's ridiculous. Start holding parents accountable from when the kids are in kindergarten. If the parents lack the skills to hold the kid accountable, offer them training. If the parents refuse, boot the kid out. That kid doesn't get to keep degrading the education of the other kids. The right to an education is not a guarantee. It is a right that must be exercised the same as any other. Teach that kid they must work for an education. Otherwise they're just being babysat.

After kids and parents start being held accountable, get rid of the zero tolerance garbage. If a kid is being tormented every day, don't kick him/her out for standing up for themselves when they take a swing. Don't create an atmosphere in which they feel they must bottle everything up till they lose control and go on a deadly rampage. Let kids work out some of their conflict. That means an occasional fight. Keeping the kids and parents accountable will lead to better kids, and therefore less conflict for them to have to manage. After they're allowed to manage some of it on their own and learn from it, they'll be better adults later on.

Stop setting so many kids up for failure and we'll have fewer failing kids and fewer shootings.

 

[U201491]

Here is a good read on the gov and education.



Terrorism Drills: Amerika Is Now Literally A CRAZY Country

<broken link removed>
_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !

 

[U201491]

A lot of the schools mass shooting have occurred at had armed security. Columbine had two on hand. Virginia Tech had its own small police department. Even if you put an armed guard in every single room, a whack job knows who to shoot first with no warning. Armed security hasn't stopped shooters in the past, and while it may reduce the risk a little, it's far from a solution. Unless you're only looking for how to reassure people. In that case, it's great for creating a false sense of security.

Mass shootings are ridiculously rare. I don't want my kids being shown that fear of the rare occurrence should lead to building your entire environment to try to eliminate all risk. Building their schools like fortresses is teaching them that it's ok to go to extreme lengths to counter minor risks. It's teaching them that those in charge are tasked with keeping them safe from all the dangers of the world.

I'd rather teach my kids to confront the danger of the world and still live without constant fear. Without being constantly guarded by "Big Brother." Don't teach my kids that they need an authority figure from the government looking out for them every step of the way. Even if that's never stated in curriculum, it would still be subtly showing it. We're moving too close in the direction of a totalitarian state as it is.

Teachers don't really need to be armed. Criminals need to be in doubt of which teachers may be armed. Offer at cost or further subsidized training to any teacher that wants it and publicize the hell out of it. Let the entire world know that any of those teachers MIGHT be armed, and that there's no way to ever know which ones are. That will do far more to dissuade bad guys than armed security. Even if not a single teacher ever chooses to carry (we all know many would).

Even when accounting for inflation, we spend far more money on education for each student than we did a generation ago. Money is not the problem. Holding parents and the kids accountable is the problem. Not too long ago a student that did poorly in school got in trouble when the parents found out. Now the teacher gets in trouble when the parents find out. That's ridiculous. Start holding parents accountable from when the kids are in kindergarten. If the parents lack the skills to hold the kid accountable, offer them training. If the parents refuse, boot the kid out. That kid doesn't get to keep degrading the education of the other kids. The right to an education is not a guarantee. It is a right that must be exercised the same as any other. Teach that kid they must work for an education. Otherwise they're just being babysat.

After kids and parents start being held accountable, get rid of the zero tolerance garbage. If a kid is being tormented every day, don't kick him/her out for standing up for themselves when they take a swing. Don't create an atmosphere in which they feel they must bottle everything up till they lose control and go on a deadly rampage. Let kids work out some of their conflict. That means an occasional fight. Keeping the kids and parents accountable will lead to better kids, and therefore less conflict for them to have to manage. After they're allowed to manage some of it on their own and learn from it, they'll be better adults later on.

Stop setting so many kids up for failure and we'll have fewer failing kids and fewer shootings.

We use to get into knock down dragouts all the time. No one went wacko. Usually over stupid things.
Most of the time the teachers just watched and had some antiseptic and bandaids handy for when we were done.
And remarkably the fighters usually ended up friends when it was over.
Now we teach kids to be a nation of wimps. They cant handle lifes problem any more. Pretty sad.
Those confrontations taught us many things and mostly good things.

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !

 

[iusmc2002]

If we ever get a time machine working, I want to go back and experience this. I have seen an awfull lot of these stories from your guys generation. I am unsure why and how society has changed where this is now a issue, I just know I don't like it.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes;

" I've also seen the "new world" and I don't like it all that much " - John Taffin

It was a cool time. I graduated in 1998, and up until '97 or so, we could have guns in our vehicles if we had a hunting license and were indeed hunting either before or after school. Who ensured we had a hunting license? We did. By bringing the gun onto school property. There was a "gang" fight (between 2 towns of 1100 people each :eye roll) and someone pulled an 870 Wingmaster 20ga. Dumb. From then on, there were to be no VISIBLE guns on school grounds. I remember half the school getting in trouble for skipping class because a kid killed a nice 4 point elk before school and we were all around his truck looking at his its head. The principle came out and yelled at us to go to class and then yelled "JAKE! Put that damn .338 away so I can't see it! God son, have some class, get rid of that Remington and get a Browning!" It was pretty funny then, and would have gotten him SWAT-teamed now

 

[rick benjamin]

I don't need to advertise, but you do, no opportunity wasted. I know what I've done in the service of my country and my people. As for anything else you have to say, I have as much respect for that as you do for me. I used to have some respect for you guys, but over the years I've learned that anyone who served post Vietnam and up to the Persian Gulf, have turned out to be half baked, mentally ill D _ _ _s, (Marines don't suffer from insanity, we enjoy every minute of it!) that think they know how everything is, and who should never have even considered enlisting.

PERS is funded first. Next, Teacher and Admin wages. School grounds are abandoned to weeds. No money for security.

While you were writing your diatribe, I and a bunch of old timers spruced-up Kelly Creek Elementary School. Last weekend, Powell Valley Elementary School. Next weekend, Dexter McCarty Middle School. Saturday 9am-noon. We bring our own tools. Hot dog bbq lunch afterwards.
A woman getting her exercise on the school play field was muttering "how wastefull, spreading bark dust on the running path when schools need funding." I said to her "Our labor is donated, and we paid for the 30 cubic yards of bark."

 

[BAMCIS]

renfield convinced me to figure out how to add another name to my ignore list.

 

[hermannr]

That is precisely what they chose in every case.
There are a few good teachers in most schools that would be good candidates to be armed and with some fairly good tactical training would be excellent guardians of the children while in school. Sorting them out according to good mental stability would be challenging but worthwhile. I think even an added bit to their pay might be in order were the qualified willing to accept the responsibility.
Some serious tactical as well as mental training should be a major requirement. In their zones there will be many innocents to protect not only from an active shooter but from themself in that situation as well.
Not mentioned much, but 100% retention of their firearm must be taught and practiced at all times.
A firearm taken by a student would end the program and be a field day by the braindead leftist media.
I would love to see an armed teacher response effort in every school. It is the correct thing to do.
_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !

I see you, like a lot of other people just don't get it do you.

"Tactical training, mental evaluation, extra pay...etc.. Booo, forget that stuff. If it was common knowledge that ANYONE MIGHT be armed at a location, there would never be any need for the arms available to be used. (BTW: teachers have to have a mental eval just to get the job in the first place)

Look at the major mass shootings. All but one committed suicide as soon as they received any viable resistance. These types want to be someone. They feel that they are no-body, and that no-one cares about them. They want to be famous, and like the little child that will do something wrong, knowing he will get negative attention...it is attention, which is what he seeks. If there MIGHT be someone there to foil the person's plan, they will choose a softer target, It is just like the concept of OC as a deterrent; it because those that would do you harm would rather pry on someone that cannot/will not defend themselves.

These teachers and administrators do not need any more requirements than your average Joe, and for the same reason... those that would do something like this will do so, no matter the law. Those that won't, won't.

 

[U201491]

renfield convinced me to figure out how to add another name to my ignore list.

that works pretty well.
Discovered that one myself

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !