Mass Shooting at Fort Hood

[CEF1959]

You should respect any nazi soldiers in our military

I'm not sure what that comment adds to a gun rights forum, but it's racist nutjob stuff. And it hurts our gun rights when you post that poison on this site. I left out your comment comparing Mein Kampf favorably to the Koran, because I couldn't stomach it.

 

[Gunner3456]

They may be right. Just as gangbangers try (as Captain aptly points out), white supremicists try, Israeli and Russian agents try, black militants try, sociopaths with a fixation on guns try, Neo-Nazis try etc. etc.

I hold the military in sufficient esteem to know that they are on the lookout for sabateurs of ALL types in their ranks and are capable of finding the ones that can be found. If you think Lt. General Cone at Ft. Hood was asleep at the switch here, say so. If you think our policy ought to be to ban all Muslims from the military, say so.

But I for one am sorry to hear you running down our military like that. These are brave and honest men and women doing their very best, and they don't need crap like that from the sidelines.

That includes the hardworking, 20,000+ brave Americans of the Muslim faith risking their lives for your freedom.

Well, so far recently we've had two domestic hits by Muslims on our military. One was on a recruiting station and one in an actual fort.

How many would it take to get you to scratch your head on this one a bit?

How many similar incidents have occurred which were perpetrated by the other groups mentioned in the last few posts?

PC is going to get a lot of people killed. Failing to admit to or to arm against a known threat which is vocal about its intentions is naive at best.

Why don't you just dispose of your guns, since people who are active and vocal in their intentions to destroy you, and have a decades-old history of trying don't seem to bother you any?

 

[Gunner3456]

I'm not sure what that comment adds to a gun rights forum, but it's racist nutjob stuff. And it hurts our gun rights when you post that poison on this site. I left out your comment comparing Mein Kampf favorably to the Koran, because I couldn't stomach it.

No matter how hard or how many times we try, we just can't get you to understand what racist means.

How are we going to get you to understand anything else, including looming storm clouds of danger?

 

[Trlsmn]

No matter how hard or how many times we try, we just can't get you to understand what racist means.

How are we going to get you to understand anything else, including looming storm clouds of danger?

I can relate. I'm at a loss to understand how being critical of Islam is racism.

 

[CEF1959]

No matter how hard or how many times we try, we just can't get you to understand what racist means.

How are we going to get you to understand anything else, including looming storm clouds of danger?

More white Christian guys have fragged fellow American service personnel than Muslims have. White Christian Nazis killed many times more US GIs in the 1940s than Muslims have in the the past 10 years. White Christian American Tim McVeigh caused 800+ American casualties, many of them little kids.

So what was your point again? Some racist scree about Muslims being evil and dangerous as a group?

Many people on this forum seem a lot more imminently dangerous to me than any Muslim I know.

 

[Gunner3456]

I can relate. I'm at a loss to understand how being critical of Islam is racism.

Well it's like this. You can bash Jews or fundamentalist Christians and you are "enlightened." If you question or distrust Islam you are "racist" even though there are Muslim members in ALL THREE races.

 

[Gunner3456]

More white Christian guys have fragged fellow American service personnel than Muslims have. White Christian Nazis killed many times more US GIs in the 1940s than Muslims have in the the past 10 years. White Christian American Tim McVeigh caused 800+ American casualties, many of them little kids.

So what was your point again? Some racist scree about Muslims being evil and dangerous as a group?

Start over Einstein. Muslim/Islam is NOT a race.

 

[CEF1959]

Start over Einstein. Muslim/Islam is NOT a race.

Oh. So it's not racism if you denigrate all Muslims, the vast majority of whom just happen to have brown skin and funny names. The fact that some are Persian, some are Arab (and a few are even white) makes it not racism to run down the whole lot with generalizations.

It's like anti-Semitism. Not racism, because Judaism is not a race. So anti-Semitism, being not racism, is perfectly fine.

Good for you. Can we count on you to denigrate Judaism next and explain how anti-Semitism is not racism and advocate for taking all Jews out of the US military? They spy on the US, or haven't you heard?

Question: Should American Muslims have the same right to keep and bear arms you have?

 

[Gunner3456]

Oh. So it's not racism if you denigrate all Muslims, the vast majority of whom just happen to have brown skin and funny names. The fact that some are even white makes it not racism at all.

It's like anti-Semitism. Not racism. And therefore perfectly fine.

Good for you.

Ignorance is bliss, Einstein. Arabs and Persians (Iranians) and Pakistanis are White. They are Caucasian.

So are East Indians although few are Muslims.

Indonesians are mostly Muslim although their RACE is Asian.

Blacks dominate Muslim Somalia.

Which race is it which you think I'm bashing? The white Arabs?

Geez....

 

[Gunner3456]

Ignorance is bliss, Einstein. Arabs and Persians (Iranians) and Pakistanis are White. They are Caucasian.

So are East Indians although few are Muslims.

Indonesians are mostly Muslim although their RACE is Asian.

Blacks dominate Muslim Somalia.

Which race is it which you think I'm bashing? The white Arabs?

Geez....

Are you the same one who said Sarah Palin is ignorant or dumb or whatever?

 

[CEF1959]

I'm saying that blasting all Muslims, whether Persian or Arab, as a group is a form of racism. Like anti-Semitism is a form of racism.

If you want to say that hating Jews isn't racism because not all Jews are of the same race, or calling Chinese "Chinks" isn't racism because some are middle eastern, or that telling jokes about Japs isn't racist because Japanese is a nationality, not a race, fine. Go for it. I say you're a racist.

If it made you feel better, I suppose I could just accuse you of ignorant redneck anti-Islamic prejudice. But that's pretty long-winded, and doesn't really make a difference anyway. And I deeply suspect that the anti-Islamic thing has a LOT to do with their having brown skin and funny names.

So I'll stick with "You're an ugly racist, and I want no part of your despicable hatred, which is both anti-American and deeply offensive to the 20,000+ brave American service personnel who are Muslims. And brown."

 

[Gunner3456]

I'm saying that blasting all Muslims, whether Persian or Arab, as a group is a form of racism. Like anti-Semitism is a form of racism.

If you want to say that hating Jews isn't racism because not all Jews are of the same race, or calling Chinese "Chinks" isn't racism because some are middle eastern, or that telling jokes about Japs isn't racist because Japanese is a nationality, not a race, fine. Go for it. I say you're a racist.

If it made you feel better, I suppose I could just accuse you of ignorant redneck anti-Islamic prejudice. But that's pretty long-winded, and doesn't really make a difference anyway. And I deeply suspect that the anti-Islamic thing has a LOT to do with their having brown skin and funny names.

So I'll stick with "You're an ugly racist, and I want no part of your despicable hatred, which is both anti-American and deeply offensive to the 20,000+ brave American service personnel who are Muslims. And brown."

First, I thought name calling was against the rules here, but since you continually do it I guess it isn't really true.

Second, since you don't know that THERE ARE ONLY THREE RACES IN THIS WHOLE WORLD no matter how many times you're told that, and that to be racist you have to be prejudiced against ONE OF THOSE THREE RACES, I can't help you.

Jews are predominately Caucasian but so are Arabs, Iranians, Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Palestinians and so on. THEY ARE ALL WHITE.

They hate each other but it's certainly not racist because it's not about RACE. It's about religion.

What part of that can't you understand? Would you like to learn a new word? Try "bigoted." Look it up. You might like it. Write it on the chalkboard 300 times and learn to spell it.

 

[Trlsmn]

Partsproduction ... <You should respect any nazi soldiers in our military>

CEF1959.....I'm not sure what that comment adds to a gun rights forum, but it's racist nutjob stuff. And it hurts our gun rights when you post that poison on this site. I left out your comment comparing Mein Kampf favorably to the Koran, because I couldn't stomach it.

That's distortion of what he said taken out of context and you know it!

Yeah, shame on you CEF, you're part of the PC problem that's getting people killed. Again, why don't you read what the quran says!

I suppose you are very careful about how you talk about naziism, you wouldn't want to offend any neonazis, right? You should respect any nazi soldiers in our military, right?

The writings of islam have a great deal more hatred in them than even mein kampf did. I don't give a fig about your tender feelings, sorry.

You can accuse me all you want, I have thick skin, and I know how to identify enemies.

It's quite unfair and inflammatory to take this statement and label him a Nazi, Neo-Nazi sympathizer! Shame on you CEF1959!

The fact is by your standards you are the one saying "we should respect any nazi soldiers in our military" CEF1959, so why would you make him look bad for your own line of thinking?

 

[braves765]

We should not be (blasting all muslims), but we can surely identify the enemy. The enemy is the (true believers) of the Qur'an. They happen to be muslims. Just like the Germans or the Russians before, we had to identify who and where the threats were coming from, foreign and domestic and deal with them accordingly. Some of you might think that we are being racist, evil, or wrong by wanting all muslims to be watched a little closer. WE ARE NOT!! We care about our country and the world, and want everyone to be able to go to work, school, the mall, or where ever, and not have to worry about being turned into a red splat on the street only because it was not politically correct to try and find the enemy. Unlike most wars we have fought in the past, our new enemy does not wear a uniform, nor do they always make their true motives known. Thats why the patriot act was passed, to try and sniff out the bad guys, but you on the left could not believe that there were actually bad guys amongst us. Oh, and by the way. There are plenty of people in Guantanamo Bay for less than what the military already knew about Major Nidal Malik Hasan before he did his deed for Allah

 

[el gringo loco]

Some of you might think that we are being racist, evil, or wrong by wanting all muslims to be watched a little closer. WE ARE NOT!! We care about our country and the world, and want everyone to be able to go to work, school, the mall, or where ever, and not have to worry about being turned into a red splat on the street only because it was not politically correct to try and find the enemy. Unlike most wars we have fought in the past, our new enemy does not wear a uniform, nor do they always make their true motives known. Thats why the patriot act was passed, to try and sniff out the bad guys, but you on the left could not believe that there were actually bad guys amongst us. Oh, and by the way. There are plenty of people in Guantanamo Bay for less than what the military already knew about Major Nidal Malik Hasan before he did his deed for Allah

With as many rants that I have read on this forum about the ever expanding tentacles of government and the concerns about government intrusion I am surprised to see this statement. I am trying to wrap my head around why it is not OK for "tha guvment" to keep track of the guns you buy, monitor what you read, know the people you associate with, regulate the amount of ammo you buy, or keep you from overpaying for health care.....but it's OK to want "all Muslims to be watched a little closer."

As much as I love the second one, there is an Amendement that comes before it that guarantees the freedom of religion. The percentage of Muslims in the United States plotting against their own country is about the same as the percentage of any othe arbitrary group of people in the US. Muslims in this country (for the most part) are no more of a danger to the US than people of Japanese heritage were in WWII.

We don't get to pick and choose who the Constitution applies to. If it is okay for the government to monitor a Muslim solely based on his religion so ghat you feel safe, it is okay to monitor you based on your gun ownership to make The nice folks over at the Brady campaign feel safe.

I do think that there are actual bad guys out there. They are not all Muslim. But, I carry a gun and know how to use it. I encourage others to do the same. And, as for the Patriot Act, I will not trade my privacy and freedoms for the illusion of security. I take a bigger risk (statistically) driving my car than by allowing a terrorist or a nutjob like the Fort Hood shooter walk around America unmonitored.

Our founders considered our rights to be natural rights bestowed upon all men. While only American citizens are protected by our Constitution, shouldn't everyone receive those protections if those are truly natural rights? Are you pround that your country has violated those natural rights and locked up people in Gitmo for "less than what the military already knew about Major Nidal Malik Hasan?"

 

[cameronhu]

With as many rants that I have read on this forum about the ever expanding tentacles of government and the concerns about government intrusion I am surprised to see this statement. I am trying to wrap my head around why it is not OK for "tha guvment" to keep track of the guns you buy, monitor what you read, know the people you associate with, regulate the amount of ammo you buy, or keep you from overpaying for health care.....but it's OK to want "all Muslims to be watched a little closer."

As much as I love the second one, there is an Amendement that comes before it that guarantees the freedom of religion. The percentage of Muslims in the United States plotting against their own country is about the same as the percentage of any othe arbitrary group of people in the US. Muslims in this country (for the most part) are no more of a danger to the US than people of Japanese heritage were in WWII.

We don't get to pick and choose who the Constitution applies to. If it is okay for the government to monitor a Muslim solely based on his religion so ghat you feel safe, it is okay to monitor you based on your gun ownership to make The nice folks over at the Brady campaign feel safe.

I do think that there are actual bad guys out there. They are not all Muslim. But, I carry a gun and know how to use it. I encourage others to do the same. And, as for the Patriot Act, I will not trade my privacy and freedoms for the illusion of security. I take a bigger risk (statistically) driving my car than by allowing a terrorist or a nutjob like the Fort Hood shooter walk around America unmonitored.

Our founders considered our rights to be natural rights bestowed upon all men. While only American citizens are protected by our Constitution, shouldn't everyone receive those protections if those are truly natural rights? Are you pround that your country has violated those natural rights and locked up people in Gitmo for "less than what the military already knew about Major Nidal Malik Hasan?"

+1 Very Well Put!

 

[braves765]

You havent lost any rights. And your not going to loose any. The fact is, that the US government has been monitoring every electronic device on the planet simultaneously for years. Way before 9/11. The computers are monitoring all of us right now. Oh well. All we are trying to say, is to stay safe against an enemy that wants all of us dead, we need to identify (exactly) who they are. I would surely bet that most, if not all of the family members of the nearly 3000 Americans killed on 9/11 wouldnt care if the terrorist would have been detained for a while and questioned about some e-mails or phone calls that were intercepted before hand.
Your right. This is America, and all religions have the right to exist, even if we dont always agree, but dont for a second think that (any) group should be able to hide behind the very rights given to us by our founding fathers, in order to do us harm.
Most of us have our eyes and mind open. (Yes, I said open!) It used to be that if you followed some nutty religion or crazy leader you just ended up drinking some Kool Aid and went to sleep. Now we have a growing number of radicals that want all (NON MUSLIM) people to DIE.
I would love to say that the world is a nice and happy place and we all can just get along, but that would be a lie.
If it wouldnt be for the complete destabilization of the world due to oil, I would say lets haul *** and get out of the middle east. (screw them) The problem still remains. The radical muslims of the world are still attacking non muslims in every corner of the planet, every minute of every day.

 

[Partsproduction]

One way some of us use to make their arguments is to deliberately side step the issues brought out by the other side. This is particularly true about what I consider to be the responses to the legitimate points being made about doctrines that cause normally peaceful people to kill, namely doctrines like national socialism and islam. I don't think anyone here has been saying that all muslims should be killed, if I'm wrong please site the post or posts.

In fact in one of my posts I said that muslims, if they could be separated from the doctrines of islam, would probably be nice people any of us would want as friends.

My point from the start has been that islam, the written doctrines of mohammed and of those that followed his hateful ideas, is the enemy!
If someone has a deadly communicable disease we want them separated from society, it's not a judgement against them! It's a recognition of the reality of their disease, it's self defense!

That side stepping I mentioned is the recurrent misrepresentation of what some of us are saying about the poisonous dogma of islam as being against people. that is totally dishonest people.

My contention, from the beginning of this thread until now, is that "good" muslims, that is muslims who really believe the doctrines of islam, want us who do not believe in islam to be either slaves (dhimmi) or dead!

Some of you are very upset by that, even though it can be proven from the quran and the hadiths to be true. I feel very sorry for those who refuse to even study it for yourselves but will call me a racist! Shoot the messenger!


Now, if "good" muslims want you dead or a slave what does that make muslims who don't? They are insincere! They want to live and let live and maybe they even like you, but they are violating their own stated beliefs. Or another way of stating it is that they don't really believe!
You people who are talking about "good American muslims" aren't really talking about muslims!

If I could take the demons out of evil minded people I would like to, but the fact is that God has allowed evil to be in our midst for His purposes. But that doesn't mean we have to deny the facts folks, or call those of us who tell the truth racists or any of the other insults I've read here.
I've tried to educate about the hidden doctrines of islam, and I hope that even my opponents here will start to at least wonder if what I say is true so they can educate themselves. I mean from the quran and hadiths, not from modern apologists.

 

[raindog]

I'm saying that blasting all Muslims, whether Persian or Arab, as a group is a form of racism. Like anti-Semitism is a form of racism.

You are using a word out of context. It does not help your argument when you do not understand the words you are using. I suspect you don't understand what the word "racist" means.

You are describing bigotry or prejudice, perhaps. One of those may be the word you want to use.

Someone who is bigoted against blacks or Asians is racist.

Someone who is bigoted against Catholics, Masons, or Red Sox fans is not.

If you want to say that hating Jews isn't racism because not all Jews are of the same race, or calling Chinese "Chinks" isn't racism because some are middle eastern, or that telling jokes about Japs isn't racist because Japanese is a nationality, not a race, fine. Go for it. I say you're a racist.

Regarding Jews...the Jews are an ethnicity and a religion (Judaism). Not all ethnic Jews practice Judaism. Not all those who practice Judaism are ethnic Jews (for example, an Irishman who converted). There is a very high degree of overlap, but they are two distinct things.

It is quite possible to be biased against the Japanese without being racist. I have a great uncle who was tortured by the Japanese during WWII and he won't drive a Japanese car or talk to Japanese people. He may be bigoted, but in his case it truly is Japanese ethnicity, not Asians in general (he has zero problems with Chinese, Koreans, etc.) I'm not endorsing his viewpoint, just using it as an illustration.

If it made you feel better, I suppose I could just accuse you of ignorant redneck anti-Islamic prejudice. But that's pretty long-winded, and doesn't really make a difference anyway. And I deeply suspect that the anti-Islamic thing has a LOT to do with their having brown skin and funny names.

I'm sorry, but this is just absurd.

I know quite a bit about Islam, and in fact had Islamic relatives on my wife's side in my first marriage, living in Tatarstan. They were mainly interested in working and feeding their kids like many people, but if you asked them, they'd tell you that we in the West live in dar-Al-Harb - the house of the sword, where Islam must be spread.

My dislike for Islam, and my recognition of it as an anti-Western, warlike, hate-mongering culture does not make me a "redneck". My "anti-Islamic thing" has nothing to do with skin color. I have friends who are from the same countries as the Arabs - Egypt, Syria, etc. They are Sephardic Jews and by looks alone, you couldn't tell them apart from Arab Muslims. In fact, these Jews have lived in these countries for longer than Islam existed there.

It's not about race. It's about culture. I have nothing but love for Sephardic Jews, most of whom are righteous liberty-loving people who'd be very much at home as Reagan Republicans (if they lived in the US). On the other hand, I have nothing but contempt for the anti-Semitic, warlike Muslims who look just like them. See? Not about race.

The idea that America has to be melting pot where we throw open our doors to every nationality in the world is ridiculous and a product of liberalism. Historically, we had heavy immigration from Europe - our closest cultural cousins. The idea that we must import, tolerate, and celebrate Islam is absurd. The idea that we must tear down and destroy our culture on the altar of "tolerance" and "multiculturalism" is likewise absurd.

There is nothing wrong with saying that Islam is incompatible with American values. I would have thought 9/11 would have taught us something.

By the way, try going to Saudi Arabia with a Bible in your suitcase sometime and let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Partsproduction]

Our founders considered our rights to be natural rights bestowed upon all men.

What I read is that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Creator, not nature.