International Maori Groups Say They WIll Not Turn In Guns.. NZ Gov't Says They Will One Way Or Another!

[ConcernedCitizen]

has anyone refused to disarm and then been slaughtered by their own gov't in the last 30-40 years though? The world is a very different place.

Making analogies to Nazi controlled Europe and Wounded Knee seem about as appropriate as liberals saying European gun laws would fix american gun culture. The gap is just too big IMO.

Jumping back to this question, I do have an answer for you.

The answer to your question is no. I don't believe anyone has recently been slaughtered for refusing to disarm. Almost all of them had been previously disarmed before the killing starts.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Jumping back to this question, I do have an answer for you.

Almost all of them had been previously disarmed before the killing starts.

Outside of 3rd world countries, who would they be? I'm playing devil's advocate for sure, but I'm also genuinely interested.

I'm leaving out 3rd world countries because the media doesn't care about them, and their governments can and have slaughter them. You can see this in action when terrorism hits NZ, Paris, the US or UK, everyone loses their minds. Whereas 50 people murdered in a country nobody cares about isn't even news.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Outside of 3rd world countries, who would they be? I'm playing devil's advocate for sure, but I'm also genuinely interested.

I'm leaving out 3rd world countries because the media doesn't care about them, and their governments can and have slaughter them. You can see this in action when terrorism hits NZ, Paris, the US or UK, everyone loses their minds. Whereas 50 people murdered in a country nobody cares about isn't even news.

My personal favorite was the war in Kosovo, where Slobodan Milosovic was slaughtering the unarmed ethnic Albanians while the world stood by and watched. Lo and behold, here comes America to the rescue, showering them with cruise missiles of FREEDOM!


Now, I know what you're thinking, but please let me put those fears to rest. That fact that we started this bombing campaign on the day of Bill Clinton's impeachment hearing was just a coincidence; pure happenstance. It was in no way, shape, or form intended to distract the public the current scandal involving our president, or to give Congress something more pressing to focus on. Perish the thought! It was simply about saving those poor ethnic Albanians. We simply had to sit by and watch thousands die while waiting for the perfect time to strike.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

For the record, any government can slaughter their own people without reprisal; they just simply have to declare it legal for them to do so.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Albanians had plenty of guns, and still got slaughtered.

The real debate might be about Kosovo/Albania being a 3rd world country that the modern world didn't care about... as evidenced by our country not caring until it served us politically.

 

[Member 5605]

just imagine if politicians put as much time into fixing debt and infrastructure problems as they did disarming or thinking of ways to disarm their subjects.... what could be accomplished in one session?

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Albanians had plenty of guns, and still got slaughtered.

The real debate might be about Kosovo/Albania being a 3rd world country that the modern world didn't care about... as evidenced by our country not caring until it served us politically.

Most of the Albanians slaughtered were unarmed, including women and children. There were mass graves full of them. Slobodan Milosovic had an army at his disposal. I still think we should have supplied the Albanians with modern weapons, to at least give them a fighting chance. Instead, we simply sent in a few cruise missiles to create the illusion that we cared.

I have to hand it to Bill Clinton, though. It was a textbook example of how to wag the dog, which the the media has adopted to good effect. (For pushing their agenda, not for us.)

Is it really your opinion that mass murders and genocide in 3rd world countries don't count? Why don't they count?

And if you haven't noticed, up until recently America has been on a steady path towards becoming a 3rd world country ourselves. Thankfully it has been slowed, but it has not been stopped yet.

Once we're a 3rd world country, and our party is declared rebels or radical terrorists, will we then cease to count?

History tends to repeat itself, and those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Do you think the Maori have learned from history? I certainly hope so.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

 

[turbo_vanner]

From the perspective of a regular American citizen, all those genocides are a forgettable footnote in history. Other than Darfur, I bet the majority of US citizens didn't even know or care about those conflicts when they were happening, due to the lack of social media.

Just look at how the media from either side reports on mass killings. In first world countries its first page news for days on end. In the middle east, 50 dead in a day is news/business as usual, and nobody cares. Thats why they don't count, those countries are effectively stuck in the 19th-20th century, where governments had a much longer leash.

As stratified as the US is becoming, there will always be enough money and wealth to make it relevant, at least in my life time. To believe otherwise is just facetious.

 

[CamoDeafie]

As stratified as the US is becoming, there will always be enough money and wealth to make it relevant, at least in my life time. To believe otherwise is just facetious.

Until it collapse from unsustainable debt and inflation.

 

[bbbass]

Well, there is a reason they don't teach history in our schools any more... we wouldn't want our students informed what can happen with an overarching government would we. And it seems that people today only have in their viewfinder the things that have happened during their lifetime. Of which, the MSM tries to keep them blissfully unaware.

The whole "it can't happen here" idea can get a person shot. Ask the Venezuelans!!

 

[slimmer13]

I think that with the recent resurgence in neo Marxism and socialism, an ideology which always brings forth totalitarian regimes and was responsible for deaths in the hundreds of millions of people, the topic of a citizenry being forced to disarm is extremely relevant. Saying that can't happen now because we have Instagram seems naive.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Well, there is a reason they don't teach history in our schools any more... we wouldn't want our students informed what can happen with an overarching government would we. And it seems that people today only have in their viewfinder the things that have happened during their lifetime. Of which, the MSM tries to keep them blissfully unaware.

The whole "it can't happen here" idea can get a person shot. Ask the Venezuelans!!

Regarding not teaching history in schools, one could also ask the Maori. They wouldn't have much to tell you though, as the British erased almost all aspects of their history from existence after the genocide that apparently never happened, at least according to history...

Who is it that writes history again?

 

[4Freedom]

I find it very naive and short-sighted to think that only 3rd world countries are capable of committing atrocities against its citizens. Since America is a first world country, who needs the 2nd Amendment right, since genocide never could occur if a country is wealthy? What about the many wealthy countries that were thrown into poverty and became autocratic dictatorships that massacred their citizens , stole their wealth and became third world countries? Not all third world countries were always poor either.. In fact, the world's poorest country, Venezeula (or at least one of the poorest), country used to be the most wealthy nation in South America. This is also a country that committed great atrocities against its citizens. It is also an example of a police state where armed gangs, guerillas and government thugs are heavily armed, but the citizens are helpless, weak, oppressed and of course, not allowed to own weapons to protect themselves.

How Venezuela stumbled to the brink of collapse

When a government has ultimate authority and power and the citizens have no means to revolt, there literally is no telling what the wrong strong-headed or belligerent leader may have done on the citizens. The court of world opinion didn't save Iranians when even with a live facebook, twitter and video streams they started gunning down many of their citizens who were protesting Khamenei. Despite their soldiers shooting innocent people, Obama still felt oblige to make deals with them and even supported the Iranian regime.

BTW, China massacred many of its citizens, suppresses media outlets, has advanced technology to monitor its citizens and is definitely not a third world country anymore. In fact, China has amassed some of the largest amounts of wealth in the world. Yet, the government has the power to crush any opposition and many people in China have been executed and are incarcerated for activities considered a threat to the authority of their dictatorship.

Despite massacring innocent civilians not being very accepted by the English government during this time period, one overzealous British commander decided to enforce the rule of law of the UK Commonwealth against their Indian subjects with lethal force. The English murdered over 1,600 men, women and children for defying a government order. This is genocide. If Maoris will refuse such an order, would the New Zealand government really want their power and authority to be challenged? English government have always feared rebellions of their subjects. Maoris have the same connection to New Zealand that Indian people have to India. It was just that it was much harder to conquer and take over a country with almost half a billion people (at the time) compared to an island with a much more sparse population. It was the English government who actually introduced the gun control laws in India and disarmed most of the people in India. Had it not been for the drain on their resources, the English would have still occupied India today and ruled it much the same way. Because of WWII, they pulled out of India as they could no longer maintain their Empire. The English, today, can barely maintain their own country.

Indian Arms Act of 1877.. The British strip Indian people of their right to own guns in their own country
Gun Control and Indian Arms Act 1877 During the Days of the Raj

 

[Ura-Ki]

How About the Ukraine circa 1816 when the Russians were building up their military and forcing all able bodied men to serve or else. How about the rise of Communism with the Bolsheviks killing every one of any wealth including entire families. the Russian revolution of 1912? The Stalinist purges?
Moving on down to Rwanda and south Africa when the Dutch were settling and brought farming and infrastructure to the Afrakaners? How about the treachery they suffered by the Black government who stole every thing from them when they saw how good it was! How about what is happening there now?
Bosnia, I walked the streets of Banj Luka during the Muslim reign of terror and the mass murder of entire towns and villages, all the while the people shouting "AMERICA GO HOME" all the while the Serbs were slaughtered like sheep, and the world ( U.N.) stood around and watched!

All these things happened in front of the whole world, yet no one from any other country stepped in to help!

OK, how about the big one? Japan and it's war of expansion against China, Korea, and Russia?
Or its conquest of the entire South Pacific, any one remember how all that turned out?

See any thing here where the people rose up in defiance? Nope. not in any real way!


All except France! Hard to believe as it is, it was the french who are most noted for rising up and fighting, not only their own government, but the Nazi's as well!

Look at Ireland and Scotland and their struggles against the crown! YUP, history likes to try and hide those little dust ups!

History is written by the victors, and rarely includes the truth!

How about eh Spanish American war? Any one wanna chime in on that little bit of history? Any one proud to be american after reading that little piece of history? How many were slaughtered in that fight?

 

[turbo_vanner]

I agree with all of that, my point was about something different though.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I agree with all of that, my point was about something different though.

Like what?

 

[Mistman]

Read the China Mirage, not so much about disarmament but what can happen to a disarmed nation.

We (the US), and the British are complicit in the political chaos that still runs throughout China, Japan, Korea and the south Pacific, not to mention Russia. It's a very complex story starting in the early 19th century. Americas Manifest Destiny, Darwinism, the Industrial age and above all greed helped create the mindset that allowed the US government to play with China and Japan's governments and shape the way the world looks now.

People think Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack against a neutral government, not even close.

 

[Ura-Ki]

And Russia was a peaceful nation before 1912 and it's build up of Military powers! Japan slapped the snot out of them, and they were not going to let that ever happen again! With the rise of Communism, every thing changed for the worse, and over 100 years later, look at what they have become! The world needs to find another boogy man and keep it's nose out of Russia's business!

 

[turbo_vanner]

Like what?

a modern, rational, democratic, first world country comparable to NZ disarming and killing its citizens.. where is an example?

examples of 100 years ago are hardly relevant with respect to what governments could get away with, and how quickly information spread across the globe.

Comparing a Venezuela and Albania to NZ makes no sense either, politically, culturally, economically, they are nowhere near comparable. Like I said in my earlier posts, its like assuming European gun control laws will work in america, based solely on 'history repeats itself'.