Manual Dial Locks and Electronic Locks - What do you folks want to know?

[Snopczynski]

Recently Liberty Safe gave the FBI a combination to a safe with a Manual Dial lock. Liberty had the combination on file. They also store electronic lock super codes and Master reset codes. All the dial combinations, super codes, and master reset codes are unique. They do not set anything in "Batches". In most cases you can have your dial combination changed. You can also get your super code from the factory and change it, master reset codes get a little trickier, but its possible to change some. Storing combinations, super codes, and master reset codes was an industry wide practice (at least until until recently ). Liberty has a process now to have your combination/code removed from their database. this is it: https://www.libertysafe.com/pages/combination-removal

If anyone needs a tech to help them swap a lock, set a combo, etc..... you can search for one here. Set the distance to "any". http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php

I am a safe and vault technician for a living. If you folks have questions about a lock, a safe, a certain manufacturers practices, etc... Feel free to ask here. Lets keep it technical though. I service Washington, parts of Idaho and parts of Oregon if anyone needs something done.

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[Yarome]

I was under the impression that dial locks... the mfg does have the combo on file... but if you change the combination then the one on file with the MFG will no longer work.

It seems though that some are saying there is till a secondary "master combination" hard built into every combination lock? The only way to defeat that is to scrub your safe and locks SN?

 

[Snopczynski]

There is only 1 combination in a dial lock, and you have to know it to open it. You can change it, and the factory will no longer have a combo they can give someone that will open the safe.

 

[Yarome]

There is only 1 combination in a dial lock, and you have to know it to open it. You can change it, and the factory will no longer have a combo they can give someone that will open the safe.

Thanks for the confirmation. That's what I thought....

 

[Flopsweat]

Are there any gotchas to buying a dial safe from a private party?

 

[Stomper]

Are there any gotchas to buying a dial safe from a private party?

Yep, you gives them monies and you gotcha a safe!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Recently Liberty Safe gave the FBI a combination to a safe with a Manual Dial lock. Liberty had the combination on file. They also store electronic lock super codes and Master reset codes. All the dial combinations, super codes, and master reset codes are unique. They do not set anything in "Batches". In most cases you can have your dial combination changed. You can also get your super code from the factory and change it, master reset codes get a little trickier, but its possible to change some. Storing combinations, super codes, and master reset codes was an industry wide practice (at least until until recently View attachment 1486222). Liberty has a process now to have your combination/code removed from their database. this is it: https://www.libertysafe.com/pages/combination-removal

If anyone needs a tech to help them swap a lock, set a combo, etc..... you can search for one here. Set the distance to "any". http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php

I am a safe and vault technician for a living. If you folks have questions about a lock, a safe, a certain manufacturers practices, etc... Feel free to ask here. Lets keep it technical though. I service Washington, parts of Idaho and parts of Oregon if anyone needs something done.

I have an AmSec 26 gun safe that has had the mechanical lock replaced with a Sargent & Greenlee digital lock. It's a lot faster to open, and the master code has been changed. Are there any drawbacks to this situation over the mechanical lock?

 

[coreymet]

There is only 1 combination in a dial lock, and you have to know it to open it. You can change it, and the factory will no longer have a combo they can give someone that will open the safe.

Not negating your knowledge and the situation could certainly be different with safe locks HOWEVER, I work at a high school and all our student lockers have a total of 5 combinations built into them which have to be changed yearly so they can be assigned to a new student.

 

[Flopsweat]

How hard is it to change the combination on a typical dial lock safe? Assuming one is reasonably competent mechanically.

 

[jbett98]

Here is a good video on how to change an S&G dial lock.
You will need to buy the group 2 change key. Amazon sells them for $17.00

 

[billdeserthills]

How hard is it to change the combination on a typical dial lock safe? Assuming one is reasonably competent mechanically.

The most made mistake is closing & locking the door before trying the new combo enough. I charge about $125 to change a known mechanical safe lock combo, that's less than what a new lock costs

 

[Snopczynski]

In regards to buying a used dial safe. It kind of depends on who made the safe and if you want the warranty to be valid or not once you own it. I would definitely have the combination changed on the safe.

 

[Snopczynski]

I have an AmSec 26 gun safe that has had the mechanical lock replaced with a Sargent & Greenlee digital lock. It's a lot faster to open, and the master code has been changed. Are there any drawbacks to this situation over the mechanical lock?

It depends on what model lock it is. There is a couple that HAVE master reset codes that CANNOT be changed. Do you have any idea what the lock model is? Just an FYI, they can all pretty much use the same keypad.

 

[Snopczynski]

Not negating your knowledge and the situation could certainly be different with safe locks HOWEVER, I work at a high school and all our student lockers have a total of 5 combinations built into them which have to be changed yearly so they can be assigned to a new student.

I never knew that about lockers. that is interesting. UL listed dial locks definitely only have 1 combo that can open them. There are no back doors.

 

[Snopczynski]

How hard is it to change the combination on a typical dial lock safe? Assuming one is reasonably competent mechanically.

I am not a fan of someone who is not a safe tech doing it. There are some key things that need to be checked before the change, and some different things that should be checked after. I was not really good at Changing combos properly until about 6 months into being a technician. I know it costs money, and it would be cool to save $$$ on that, but the potential cost for having to open a lockout would be 3-4x the cost of the service call. A good tech is also going to look over the entire mechanism and lock as well, and catch any potential issues before they happen. If this about them knowing the combo, you can trust a real safe technician. We live by a code, and take customer privacy very seriously.

 

[Yarome]

I am not a fan of someone who is not a safe tech doing it. There are some key things that need to be checked before the change, and some different things that should be checked after. I was not really good at Changing combos properly until about 6 months into being a technician. I know it costs money, and it would be cool to save $$$ on that, but the potential cost for having to open a lockout would be 3-4x the cost of the service call. A good tech is also going to look over the entire mechanism and lock as well, and catch any potential issues before they happen. If this about them knowing the combo, you can trust a real safe technician. We live by a code, and take customer privacy very seriously.

I can appreciate that, but one criteria that is of the utmost importance to me when buying a safe is user ability to change the combo after purchase. Even if a special tool is required, it's going to cost less than a tech in the long run and allows the ability to change it more than once at will. IE., Giving access to someone temporarily and changing the combo after the fact.

I'm of the old school mindset though that if you share a secret with one other person... it's no longer a secret. I don't want the MFG to have my combo and... no offense to any private lock tech... but the potential of a single individual that isn't accountable to greater company policies... I trust even less. Not that I think they might be a crock, but the potential to be more lax in their handling and securing of customer info may be greater(?) It could very well be the other way around... with MFG databases being a juicier target for would be bad guys... but either way... the safest route is to allow no one (big company or small) access to your combo.

 

[billdeserthills]

I never knew that about lockers. that is interesting. UL listed dial locks definitely only have 1 combo that can open them. There are no back doors

Master Lock's locker combination locks will never be seen as an actual safe lock

 

[Snopczynski]

I can appreciate that, but one criteria that is of the utmost importance to me when buying a safe is user ability to change the combo after purchase. Even if a special tool is required, it's going to cost less than a tech in the long run and allows the ability to change it more than once at will. IE., Giving access to someone temporarily and changing the combo after the fact.

I'm of the old school mindset though that if you share a secret with one other person... it's no longer a secret. I don't want the MFG to have my combo and... no offense to any private lock tech... but the potential of a single individual that isn't accountable to greater company policies... I trust even less. Not that I think they might be a crock, but the potential to be more lax in their handling and securing of customer info may be greater(?) It could very well be the other way around... with MFG databases being a juicier target for would be bad guys... but either way... the safest route is to allow no one (big company or small) access to your combo.

I would say if you want the ability to change the combination yourself, I would have an electronic lock installed on the safe.

 

[Yarome]

I would say if you want the ability to change the combination yourself, I would have an electronic lock installed on the safe.

Interesting. So you're saying that only a qualified technician is capable of changing a dial lock and a person "must" pay up to release their new combination "into the wild"... or go with an electronic lock?

Choosing a safe company that allows "opt-out" of your safes master code retention and trust it is actually deleted from their files... as well as any data storage backups(?)

I find that interesting since I've changed my mechanical locks successfully on more than one occasion and have found the only real "issue" in choosing a lock/safe option is how accessible the change key slot is. Some with easy access at the rear of the lock mechanism and others requiring you to remove the inner door panel to gain access... which is kind of a PITA.

To each their own, I guess. For $24 for a key with unlimited number of uses... I think I'll keep my combo's "private".

 

[saw2]

Just changed the combo on one of my safes with S&G dial lock. Purchased the "change key" from Ebay a year or so ago. Just never had gotten around to try and change combo. Was kind of worried about messing it up.

After watching video jbett98 posted above decided to give it a try. Easy peasy took me less than 5 minutes to change combo.

Thanks jbetts98 for that video. I now consider this my constructive task of the day. Now I'm going to go burn a few hundred rounds.