Liberty safes - "backdoor" access code?

[Alexx1401]

And, *again*, this is not the manufacturer's call to make. This is the owner's call to make. If they would prefer the gov to get in without damage, they can give them the code. If they want to make the gov work for it at the cost of the safe they can. No one is saying it is always smart to make the gov open the safe "their way", what people are saying is that LS should not have made this decision for the customer. This is why they will face blowback and boycotts, and yes it is wholly self inflicted and deserved.

The owner had no choice here. Many wanted the safe destroyed which is what would happen. Still can't understand why so many think its a "win" to have the safe ruined since the safe is going to get opened. Again though a LOT of people are SUPER exercised about this while they ignore the real damage being done to them by law makers. So they run around and yell for people to no longer buy a safe from this Co, while ignoring the real threat. Then wonder why we keep losing. We seem to deserve to lose.

 

[Yarome]

And, *again*, this is not the manufacturer's call to make. This is the owner's call to make. If they would prefer the gov to get in without damage, they can give them the code. If they want to make the gov work for it at the cost of the safe they can. No one is saying it is always smart to make the gov open the safe "their way", what people are saying is that LS should not have made this decision for the customer. This is why they will face blowback and boycotts, and yes it is wholly self inflicted and deserved.

Couldn't agree more!! Some here can debate and belittle what a person should or should not do, but the point remains.... it is solely the choice of each individual to determine the course of their personal property. Not anyone else's. What "anyone" else might think means diddly squat.

LS was absolutely in the wrong providing confidential customer info without due legal process. Period. Their change in policy and making it an option to opt-out is as it should have always been and a good move to try and salvage any shred of their reputation.....

....however....

More than what they actually did... it's the attention and company scrutiny their actions drew that is really going to be their downfall, now. Exclusively supporting those that venomously fight to infringe on 2A rights... while catering to a pro-2A customer base?? That simply isn't going to fly. Not in todays heated political climate. GWGB!!

IMHO, If they really wanted to try and do right by their existing customers they would be offering free mechanical lock kits for a designated period of time to any that wish to switch out from keypads.

 

[Yarome]

The owner had no choice here. Many wanted the safe destroyed which is what would happen. Still can't understand why so many think its a "win" to have the safe ruined since the safe is going to get opened.

The owner had a choice to make it easy for them or make them work for it. Who is anyone else to judge what someone else wants to do with their own property? Whichever way they choose it obviously makes sense to them in some way... so what purpose does it serve to keep harping on a choice that wouldn't align with yours?

What baffles me is... if "I" were LS and LE is calling "me" for the code... it would stand to reason that the owner was not willing to provide it and obviously won't appreciate me giving access to their personal property against their wishes. That's simply common sense... which leads me to believe that it wasn't simply an innocent policy glitch but a willful disregard for their customers.

IE., Who in their right might is going to think, "the owner doesn't want to give it to LE but the customer won't mind if "I" do."
(Being legally compelled to do so is, of course, a whole different animal)

 

[Alexx1401]

The owner had a choice to make it easy for them or make them work for it. Who is anyone else to judge what someone else wants to do with their own property? Whichever way they choose it obviously makes sense to them in some way... so what purpose does it serve to keep harping on a choice that wouldn't align with yours?

I have said that since the start of this thread. That the safe owner is the owner. If they feel its worth throwing the cost of the safe in the toilet, it is their money. I don't understand anyone wanting to flush 1K or so down the crapper and call that a "win", but a lot of others here seem to think its a win. Hey to each their own.

 

[trekkerpaul]

For all you debating on what to do with your safe. Liberty safe has come out with this option.

Combination Removal Request Form

Combination Removal Request Form I authorize Liberty Safe to remove any combination or reset code associated with my safe from their records. I understand by submitting this form, Liberty Safe will be unable to support service requests for my lock. Before filling out the form below, depending on...

www.libertysafe.com

 

[Alexx1401]

For all you debating on what to do with your safe. Liberty safe has come out with this option.

Combination Removal Request Form

Combination Removal Request Form I authorize Liberty Safe to remove any combination or reset code associated with my safe from their records. I understand by submitting this form, Liberty Safe will be unable to support service requests for my lock. Before filling out the form below, depending on...

www.libertysafe.com

Well that didn't take long. I have to wonder if they do delete your info is it really deleted?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

and LE is calling "me" for the code...

Maybe I missed it, but do we know what LE actually said to LS? Like was it just. "Dude, help a LEO bro out here" or was it "We have a court order authorizing blah blah blah"

 

[trekkerpaul]

Well that didn't take long. I have to wonder if they do delete your info is it really deleted?

They keep the info for one reason normally, I would guess, to help their customers get back into their safe. Now you have the option to lose your info and have to break into your safe yourself.

 

[Alexx1401]

They keep the info for one reason normally, I would guess, to help their customers get back into their safe. Now you have the option to lose your info and have to break into your safe yourself.

I think you missed what I am saying. I doubt they keep this info on pads of paper at the office. So I would have to guess its on some drive or cloud. So when they say they deleted it, is it really gone? People have been finding out the hard way for a long time that deleting things off their drives does not stop the info from coming out later.

 

[Yarome]

Maybe I missed it, but do we know what LE actually said to LS? Like was it just. "Dude, help a LEO bro out here" or was it "We have a court order authorizing blah blah blah"

No phone transcript was provided in any of the articles I read, no.

If you read any of the multiple articles and/or LS's public statements... the code was requested. LS required them to supply a copy of the warrant. The warrant was for the property in question... not LS. By their own statement, they are aware of the difference and handling those types of requests is routine for them. They were aware they were not legally compelled to provide the code, and admitted as such. It was simply their company policy to assist LE when presented proof of a valid property warrant.

It's not like in the movies and a one off... some hot shot LEO talked and intimidated an ignorant LS info divulging customer info. It was their company policy to provide it under that circumstance.

 

[OneArgus]

Comes down to a few simple objectives.
1. DO NOT LET ANY LE IN SAFE, IN WHICH CASE THEY WILL DESTROY GETTING IN IT.
2. GIVE THEM THE COMBINATION OR LS DOES, SAME RESULT SAFE INTACT.
3. BE ON THE MOUNTAIN OF RIGHT, AND HAVE SAFE DESTROYED.



Personally I spend allot of my hard earned money on my safes. And if they want in they will get in.
There are two issues the safe and what is in it. Why lose both when, there was and option to loose one.
And maybe not lose contents?
I could find no case where a safe was confiscated. Only its contents.

This is different then in say a vehicle where, denying access to LEs trashing you car in a search.
In that view, you are not searching my car, without probable cause or warrant. Cause I have seen LEs be anything but careful.

Argus

 

[Tony617]

I saw the Libery Safe a request to remove the backdoor access code. I do not own a Liberty Safe but they have access backdoor code when I submit a request. Probably someone is responisible removing the passcode but if the data really gone? If someone is backing up their IT systems and if anyone the has access to backdoor passcodes who is to say that the federal government has a paid informate that will pass the backdoor passcodes to the government anyways? Not sure if the backdoor passcode is supplied by model number or a certain set of serial numbers get the same backdoor pass codes or what.

 

[lucusloc]

The owner had no choice here. Many wanted the safe destroyed which is what would happen. Still can't understand why so many think its a "win" to have the safe ruined since the safe is going to get opened. Again though a LOT of people are SUPER exercised about this while they ignore the real damage being done to them by law makers. So they run around and yell for people to no longer buy a safe from this Co, while ignoring the real threat. Then wonder why we keep losing. We seem to deserve to lose.

The owner had a choice that LS took away from them. And yes, the owner could have chosen to have LE destroy the safe, and the FBI could have chosen to destroy the safe - IF they were confident that the warrant would not come back to bite them. If they destroyed a safe on a warrant that later got overturned that would cause a much bigger legal issue for the FBI than them getting in with a backdoor code. It is roughly the equivalent of them searching a property on "probable cause" vs. being voluntarily allowed to search by the owner. The first one puts the entire search (and the findings thereof) in legal jeopardy should the "probable cause" be found to be without merit, while the second option means you waived your rights and have very little ability to challenge any findings no matter how badly the search was conducted.

This goes way beyond "just having the safe destroyed", there are very pertinent and relevant legal issues at hand with LS just handing the codes over. And *again again* those decisions were not for LS to make, yet here we are watching them get made.

And now we find out why! It seems that a good bit of LS's upper management was super big into liberal politics. You complain that raking this company over the coals does nothing to "change the politics" behind the search in the first place? It has everything to do with the politics because at it's root this is not even about politics. This is a cultural issue. This is about all the people who agree with and vote for our liberties to be destroyed, because that destruction fuels their wealth. You fight that war not with votes, but with the economic destruction of the entities that are driving that culture. We boycott companies like Disney and Netflix and the rest of Hollywood (and are doing a pretty decent job of it BTW, Most of these companies are down Billions and some, like Disney, are even facing legal action from investors). We boycott companies like Target for pushing an agenda. And we will punish the companies "on our side" far more harshly when it is found they are nothing more than a caricature of what we actually stand for, when in reality they actually stand against us.

Pounding LS out of business not only for their capitulation in the destruction of our rights but for their funding of that destruction is, as far as I am concerned, just a good start. Make them an example that no one will forget, and let us see how many more companies are willing to follow down their path. I will never forgive them, for their animosity comes straight down from the ownerships and no amount of policy revisions and termination of middle management will change that. They showed us their true colors, it is incumbent on us to believe them and act accordingly.

 

[billdeserthills]

Couldn't agree more!! Some here can debate and belittle what a person should or should not do, but the point remains.... it is solely the choice of each individual to determine the course of their personal property. Not anyone else's. What "anyone" else might think means diddly squat.

LS was absolutely in the wrong providing confidential customer info without due legal process. Period. Their change in policy and making it an option to opt-out is as it should have always been and a good move to try and salvage any shred of their reputation.....

....however....

More than what they actually did... it's the attention and company scrutiny their actions drew that is really going to be their downfall, now. Exclusively supporting those that venomously fight to infringe on 2A rights... while catering to a pro-2A customer base?? That simply isn't going to fly. Not in todays heated political climate. GWGB!!

IMHO, If they really wanted to try and do right by their existing customers they would be offering free mechanical lock kits for a designated period of time to any that wish to switch out from keypads.

Mechanical safe locks that have been installed by the manufacturer also have a 'back door code', I should know-- I and other locksmiths have been taking advantage of them for many years

 

[Yarome]

Mechanical safe locks that have been installed by the manufacturer also have a 'back door code', I should know-- I and other locksmiths have been taking advantage of them for many years

Aren't you just a little ray of sunshine! Bless your heart.... (meant in the most Southern way possible)

Is that true of all, or do some companies not build in backdoor combo's? It just seems like that would be a massive security breech very heavily exploited, but you don't hear about it much.

A bit off topic, but just curious since that market is pretty far outside of my wheelhouse.

 

[oneshotkyle]

Amazing to how many people have responded in this post as to just roll over to the government and there demand. Unlawful demands. Probly on there 6th booster by now too….

 

[bradsteen]

Just saw this today, if this is a duplicate of another post feel free to merge threads, and if this is the wrong section to post in, feel free to move it.

Your Gun Safe Might Not Be Safe: Liberty Safe Surrenders Access Code To FBI

BIG news if you own a Liberty Safe or any safe with a digital lock. Backdoor access codes and the FBI.

www.recoilweb.com

Short version for those who don't click on links, the FBI executed a search warrant on a guy's house, who had a Liberty gun safe. They contacted Liberty and asked for the code to the safe, and Liberty voluntarily gave it to them. Liberty was under no obligation to do so - the FBI would have had to subpoena them for that to be the case.

Another issue is that apparently Liberty safes with digital keypads have a master override code which cannot be changed or removed by the customer after they purchase the safe. If the code provided to the FBI was a master override code, it's possible the FBI could use that code to access other Liberty safes.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Liberty safes - "backdoor" access code?

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[bradsteen]

Liberty safes - "backdoor" access code?

www.northwestfirearms.com

Thanks @VinnieBoomBah . Didn't see that.

 

[Camelfilter]

Thanks @VinnieBoomBah . Didn't see that.

Merged.