Louisville bank shooter was gun controller wanting to make a statement

[Yarome]

In all seriousness, music and video games are not the root cause of violence and if they have had any influence on violent people it has been minimal.

I would agree that things like that are not the "cause", however, I do believe they play a part by desensitizing people. Repeated exposure to anything has a desensitizing affect.

It has the potential to work against greater ideals and morale principles, IMHO. So while I don't believe anyone who plays violent video games is going to be a violent person... I do believe a less morally grounded person may be desensitized to societal and moral constraints.

If you ask me... the greatest contributing factor is parenting practices and education that fail to instill a framework of morale grounding and personal responsivity. Leaving children "ungrounded" and more susceptible to the effects of desensitization and external influences.

But that's a different forum entirely.

 

[Mikej]

The question remains because there is absolutely nothing than can be done to mitigate risk to zero and has to be considered an acceptable cost of freedom. It's like wishing for world peace.

Not to sound heartless, but as atrocious and heinous as these types of events are.... they are, statistically, so minute as to be inconsequential. We are simply making mountains out of ant hills to push an agenda.

Like DUI related auto deaths. We don't outlaw alcohol OR increase regulation of automobile ownership. It's unfortunate, but statistically inconsequential against "the greater freedom".

When free will exists, there is always an inherit element of risk in our daily lives.

I would agree that things like that are not the "cause", however, I do believe they play a part by desensitizing people. Repeated exposure to anything has a desensitizing affect.

It has the potential to work against greater ideals and morale principles, IMHO. So while I don't believe anyone who plays violent video games is going to be a violent person... I do believe a less morally grounded person may be desensitized to societal and moral constraints.

If you ask me... the greatest contributing factor is parenting practices and education that fail to instill a framework of morale grounding and personal responsivity. Leaving children "ungrounded" and more susceptible to the effects of desensitization and external influences.

But that's a different forum entirely.

Call me fricken CORNY, but what was going my through my head when I was reading this?

THIS^^^^

 

[Member 53328]

Buying a house or new car=presumably financing a lot of money and securing the terms of said financing. Show up with cash on hand and that gets a lot simpler/quicker. Same can be said for high end furniture or a new bed (on top of the presumed difficulties in loading/transporting large items).

The difference in the barriers to purchasing a firearm is that they are a result of burdensome and unconstitutional laws, not a result of finance negotiations or trying to figure out how to move/deliver a heavy or bulky piece of furniture.

Anyone who claims to wait in line longer at a grocery store than it does to complete a firearm purchase start to finish is either disingenuous or must only shop the day before a major holiday lol

Even with cash a gun purchase is faster…..

Registration, insurance, title transfer, etc. but I guess that also could be viewed as burdensome…. I'd rather fill out paperwork for a firearm than wait for my number to be called at the DMV.

A gun purchase for me takes 5 minutes. I just bought another one a week ago.

Cry all you want. It will change nothing.

 

[TTSX]

Even with cash a gun purchase is faster…..

Registration, insurance, title transfer, etc. but I guess that also could be viewed as burdensome…. I'd rather fill out paperwork for a firearm than wait for my number to be called at the DMV.

A gun purchase for me takes 5 minutes. I just bought another one a week ago.

Cry all you want. It will change nothing.

But God damnit, buying a gun is HARD and BURDENSOME and woe is me

 

[Yarome]

Call me fricken CORNY, but what was going my through my head when I was reading this?

It has merit, IMO.

I mean... if you stop and think about it... addressing mental health issues is basically an attempt to fix what is broken.

The bigger question. What are we doing as parents and as a society that's "breaking" so many of our youth?

To me, it seems like a lot of our social issues are us crying over the bed we've made for ourselves.

 

[Member 53328]

But God damnit, buying a gun is HARD and BURDENSOME and woe is me

The internet is a wonderful place to b!tch and moan.

 

[Member 53328]

It has merit, IMO.

I mean... if you stop and think about it... addressing mental health issues is basically an attempt to fix what is broken.

The bigger question. What are we doing as parents and as a society that's "breaking" so many of our youth? To me a lot of it seems to be crying about the bed we've made for ourselves.

That requires taking responsibility…. Playing the victim is much easier.

 

[nwslopoke]

Lets start with the easy part, shall we? The Lewiston shooter should have had his guns taken! Period! The red flag laws that the dip-o-crap's are always going for would have the law invade someone's abode and clean them out for a shouting match between spouses. There is a HUGE difference there.

More than his guns, Red Flag laws should remove the threat. The shooter is always the issue. One reason I think those laws are useless. A determined mind will find a way.

 

[Tony617]

It has merit, IMO.

I mean... if you stop and think about it... addressing mental health issues is basically an attempt to fix what is broken.

The bigger question. What are we doing as parents and as a society that's "breaking" so many of our youth?

To me, it seems like a lot of our social issues are us crying over the bed we've made for ourselves.

You should watch "Taylor The Fiend" YT channel if you want to find out. He has a huge number of TikTok videos with single moms and divorced woman with kids.

 

[monkeybutler]

When these type of situations occur... do you see then pushing for mental health reform? School education reform? Community programs? Money to increase LE presence and training? Enhanced security packages for public spaces? Mental health professionals in schools? Tougher on crime laws that may intervene at an earlier stage in a persons life that may have a propensity for lawlessness... that is likely to evolve into greater crimes? Among a multitude of other areas that might address the core issues behind senseless murders.

Nope! The only thing they are selling is "gun control". As if removing all firearms from the country will put a stop to senseless person on person violence. What causes people to use a firearm to murder innocents? Why... it's the gun mfg's marketing and advertising, of course. (They say)

To say that they acknowledge there are other factors is one thing. Most rational people would agree. In the action phase though they are not addressing any of those other additional factors. Only guns.

Not only that, but they actively block and oppose efforts to address and/or implement many of the above.

In that practical sense, they are demonstrating that to them... it's only about the guns and exactly what people mean when they say, "to them, it's only about the guns". Actions speak louder than words.

You make some good points.

My impressions are…

On the left they want social programs to solve what are likely endemic and unsolvable problems. So pour money down the hole. No thanks.

On the right there is rhetoric about mental health care but they shut a lot of that down 30 years ago so I find the dance there a bit disingenuous. Meh.

Nobody has really done anything super duper to solve the problem. But by now I have forgotten what the problem was. Oh, right, "gun violence." What a lovely phrase.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Checked back in after a day with the family only to find. . .

 

[mhayd93]

The internet is a wonderful place to b!tch and moan.

The irony of b!tching and moaning on the internet about people b!tching and moaning on the internet is rich lol

"Cry all you want" though, it's not gonna change

Also, if "b!tching and moaning" about infringements on the 2nd Amendment bother you, you're prowling the wrong forum. Seems like a weird place to be if people discussing unconstitutional laws upsets you so much!

 

[mhayd93]

Even with cash a gun purchase is faster…..

Registration, insurance, title transfer, etc. but I guess that also could be viewed as burdensome…. I'd rather fill out paperwork for a firearm than wait for my number to be called at the DMV.

A gun purchase for me takes 5 minutes. I just bought another one a week ago.

Cry all you want. It will change nothing.

"

A gun purchase for me takes 5 minutes. I just bought another one a week ago.

Good for you, I also get instant approvals 90% of the time. But what about everyone else? Yesterday alone I witnessed quite a few people who are probably gonna be waiting 2-3 days to pick up their firearm.

Any logical attempt to disprove how that is not an inherent difficulty or undue burden? Or do you actually agree with me but just want to argue because you can get a gun in 5 minutes?

Your approach to this discussion would be like me saying wheelchairs are useless because my legs work just fine.

 

[oremike]

On the Louisville guy. First there is no criminal until there is a crime. Full stop, think about that for a second. So my thought is to prevent more random shooting there should be more good guys with guns shooting back. So instead of taking away my guns, why not encourage more to become proficient thru enjoyment of the shooting sports. I'm saying this guy wasn't a criminal until he committed the first crime weather it was banishing, threatening or firing the first shot. That is when someone should have ended the crime spree.

 

[Member 53328]

"

Good for you, I also get instant approvals 90% of the time. But what about everyone else? Yesterday alone I witnessed quite a few people who are probably gonna be waiting 2-3 days to pick up their firearm.

Any logical attempt to disprove how that is not an inherent difficulty or undue burden? Or do you actually agree with me but just want to argue because you can get a gun in 5 minutes?

Your approach to this discussion would be like me saying wheelchairs are useless because my legs work just fine.

You're going through a BGC to legally acquire a gun.

Get over it. Life isn't fair.

And I'm not b!tching….. I got no issues with the process put in place. Call me what you want.

 

[Koda]

On the Louisville guy. First there is no criminal until there is a crime. Full stop, think about that for a second. So my thought is to prevent more random shooting there should be more good guys with guns shooting back. So instead of taking away my guns, why not encourage more to become proficient thru enjoyment of the shooting sports. I'm saying this guy wasn't a criminal until he committed the first crime weather it was banishing, threatening or firing the first shot. That is when someone should have ended the crime spree.

cause that goes against the socialist agenda of govt dependency.

 

[Member 53328]

They are trying to solve a problem that is insoluble. People are inherently evil. They will do evil things. People have to be taught how to be good.

Some will buy a gun legally, before committing an evil act. Some will buy a gun illegally after committing an act. Maybe even legally if their evil act went unnoticed/unsolved.

Hell, they may conduct the act without a gun at all. We all know this isn't about guns or background checks….. If people want/desire to murder, rape, kidnap, molest, rob, etc. they will find a way to do so.

The solution is a double tap to the "T Box." So if you can legally own a gun and carry than do so (yes… this means going through a background check and possibly waiting a day or two). Cause cops don't show up until the crime has already been committed.

 

[Yarome]

They are trying to solve a problem that is insoluble. People are inherently evil. They will do evil things. People have to be taught how to be good.

Some will buy a gun legally, before committing an evil act. Some will buy a gun illegally after committing an act. Maybe even legally if their evil act went unnoticed/unsolved.

Hell, they may conduct the act without a gun at all. We all know this isn't about guns or background checks….. If people want/desire to murder, rape, kidnap, molest, rob, etc. they will find a way to do so.

The solution is a double tap to the "T Box." So if you can legally own a gun and carry than do so (yes… this means going through a background check and possibly waiting a day or two). Cause cops don't show up until the crime has already been committed.

Among survey's of inmates serving time for a gun related crimes, statistics show that more than 60% said they would avoid a target if there is reason to believe the target may be armed. Stats also overwhelmingly show that criminals greater fear is... a good guy with a gun. Not the police, not about being caught, not about any punishment they might face IF caught. A good guy with a gun.

Among the mass shooters, I don't know percentages, but I do know that when selecting targets, the presence or lack of security has been a predominant deciding factor... for those where some type of diary or similar was discovered.

When it comes to talking about the deterring affect of more people carrying... here's your sign!

On the ease of illegal firearm acquisition, within a chicago gun access and use study in 2018 they found that only 0.9% of inmates purchased their firearms from a gun shop or department store. The rest were acquired through other means. When questioned about how long it took them to acquire a firearm through other means... the numbers where interesting.



Looks like, from the time they started "shopping" about 50% were able to obtain a firearm in 5 days or less. 80% within 15 days and near 85% within a month.

Considering all the laws that are supposed to prohibit criminals from accessing firearms that sure seems pretty quick and easy.

 

[Member 53328]

Among survey's of inmates serving time for a gun related crimes, statistics show that more than 60% said they would avoid a target if there is reason to believe the target may be armed. Stats also overwhelmingly show that criminals greater fear is... a good guy with a gun. Not the police, not about being caught, not about any punishment they might face IF caught. A good guy with a gun.

Among the mass shooters, I don't know percentages, but I do know that when selecting targets, the presence or lack of security has been a predominant deciding factor... for those where some type of diary or similar was discovered.

When it comes to talking about the deterring affect of more people carrying... here's your sign!

On the ease of illegal firearm acquisition, within a chicago gun access and use study in 2018 they found that only 0.9% of inmates purchased their firearms from a gun shop or department store. The rest were acquired through other means. When questioned about how long it took them to acquire a firearm through other means... the numbers where interesting.

View attachment 1769793

Looks like, from the time they started "shopping" about 50% were able to obtain a firearm in 5 days or less. 80% within 15 days and near 85% within a month.

Considering all the laws that are supposed to prohibit criminals from accessing firearms that sure seems pretty quick and easy.

It's quick and easy whether you're doing it legally or illegally.

 

[CamoDeafie]

It's quick and easy whether you're doing it legally or illegally.

Some States would prefer it be all but impossible legally of course, those States tend to be bastions of a particular Party with consistently high crime rates