Louisville bank shooter was gun controller wanting to make a statement

[Koda]

There is no absolute standard for "too hard" or "too easy." So, they are not lying as such, but have a different idea of what easy and hard might be with respect to firearm purchases. Phrasing it in moral terms shoots you - and me - in the foot.

Want to keep losing legal battles by making pro2a viewpoints readily dismissable as boy in the bubble banter?

When they leave out the part that the bad guy didn't have a criminal record and claim anyone can buy a gun, which is dishonest.

 

[Koda]

My comparison is only to point out the futility of predictive criminalization. Or preemptive criminalization, if viewed in another perspective. Either way, it is a draconian response to a perceived "problem" that takes away civil rights without achieving the stated goal.

Yet this is a kingpin of the gun control debate. Anti gunners use this to take away the right for lawful citizens.
I dont think there is a solution to predictive criminalization, and shouldnt be.

 

[Member 53328]

Buying a gun is like a 5 minute, streamlined process. It's easy. Just the way I like it.

 

[GrayGoose]

I miss the days of mail order from the Sears catalog with delivery right to the front door.
I also miss the days when we didn't have crazed people on psycho pharmaceuticals in fatherless families, listening to hip-hop, playing violent video games, being desensitized empower them to carry out "mass shootings", only to have their behavior blamed on guns instead of the other elements that contributed to their violent mindset.
Where's my time machine...

 

[ar addict]

So the shooter was anti gun and had mental health issues.
Did his anti gun friends not red flag him because he had no guns.
I am not in for red flag laws.
Or did they think he had no mental health issues.
I don't have answers or solutions, Just questions.

 

[mhayd93]

I mean, to me it does seem about as simple as buying a gallon of milk... heck I've purchased more firearms than milk gallons. I really don't understand why people say it's difficult to buy a gun. It is neither physically nor mentally taxing and is hardly time consuming to do so.

If your definition of "not easy" is having to put in effort at all, then sure I suppose buying a gun is "not easy"

Well I pretty clearly demonstrated what "not easy" means to me.

I'll make it easier to understand; something that is "easy" to purchase means I can go in and grab it, get it rung up, pay and leave with no additional fanfare or hoops to jump through.

Purchasing a firearm has numerous barriers and extra steps such as: Needing a specific employee to act as the gatekeeper to even look at the product, temporarily surrendering your ID, filling out a background check, waiting for someone to review/submit your background check, having to wait an unpredictable amount of time for your background check to clear, having to pay an additional fee on top of the cost of the firearm, etc…

Yeah, none of those steps are mentally tasking, but that's a pretty narrow view of "easy." Also, your point about it being "hardly time consuming" is a bad take! Even in non-panic buying times, I've witnessed the burdensome background check process lead to many hours of wasted time!

 

[TTSX]

Well I pretty clearly demonstrated what "not easy" means to me.

I'll make it easier to understand; something that is "easy" to purchase means I can go in and grab it, get it rung up, pay and leave with no additional fanfare or hoops to jump through.

Purchasing a firearm has numerous barriers and extra steps such as: Needing a specific employee to act as the gatekeeper to even look at the product, temporarily surrendering your ID, filling out a background check, waiting for someone to review/submit your background check, having to wait an unpredictable amount of time for your background check to clear, having to pay an additional fee on top of the cost of the firearm, etc…

Yeah, none of those steps are mentally tasking, but that's a pretty narrow view of "easy." Also, your point about it being "hardly time consuming" is a bad take! Even in non-panic buying times, I've witnessed the burdensome background check process lead to many hours of wasted time!

You're allowed to pretend something is hard. That doesn't mean it is. I'm sorry filling out a form maxes out your capabilities and turns a menial task into an insurmountable obstacle. That sounds awful.

 

[GrayGoose]

I mean, to me it does seem about as simple as buying a gallon of milk... heck I've purchased more firearms than milk gallons. I really don't understand why people say it's difficult to buy a gun. It is neither physically nor mentally taxing and is hardly time consuming to do so.

Interesting, I don't remember ever having to show my ID, fill out a form, submit finger prints, pay a fee for a background check, and be subject to waiting for the approval, all just to purchase a gallon of milk.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Firearm laws....
None of them stop crime or prevent criminals from committing crimes.
If they worked then sh!t like the OP wouldn't happen.

However , what firearm laws actually do is make it difficult for a law abiding gun owner to buy , shoot , own or otherwise enjoy their firearms.
Andy

 

[Member 53328]

You're allowed to pretend something is hard. That doesn't mean it is. I'm sorry filling out a form maxes out your capabilities and turns a menial task into an insurmountable obstacle. That sounds awful.

It takes more time buying a house, applying to rent, buying a new car, bed, high end furniture, etc than it does to buy a gun. Hell, I wait in line at the grocery store longer than I do filling out the paperwork and walking out with a gun….

The idea that it's difficult to purchase a gun is stupid. This is coming from a Marine who eats crayons and can barely spell his own name.

I'm also ok with a BGC in the current condition of society we live in and the morality/lack there of. In an ideal world we could pick up a gun and walk out with it. Just a transaction. But that's not the world we live in.

 

[ScatPackLife]

I miss the days of mail order from the Sears catalog with delivery right to the front door.
I also miss the days when we didn't have crazed people on psycho pharmaceuticals in fatherless families, listening to hip-hop, playing violent video games, being desensitized empower them to carry out "mass shootings", only to have their behavior blamed on guns instead of the other elements that contributed to their violent mindset.
Where's my time machine...

You mean "where's my walker"?! How old are you?

I'm just teasing.

In all seriousness, music and video games are not the root cause of violence and if they have had any influence on violent people it has been minimal.

 

[mhayd93]

You're allowed to pretend something is hard. That doesn't mean it is. I'm sorry filling out a form maxes out your capabilities and turns a menial task into an insurmountable obstacle. That sounds awful.

Sorry, didn't realize you'd be so sensitive! I forgot this is supposed to be a family-friendly site so it slipped my mind that I might be replying to ten year olds.

If you want to use every logical fallacy in the book and purposely misinterpret what I was saying to suit your own facile argument, then go ahead and move on; clearly you aren't here for actual discussion (and are very sensitive to any level of disagreement to boot)

 

[mhayd93]

It takes more time buying a house, applying to rent, buying a new car, bed, high end furniture, etc than it does to buy a gun. Hell, I wait in line at the grocery store longer than I do filling out the paperwork and walking out with a gun….

The idea that it's difficult to purchase a gun is stupid. This is coming from a Marine who eats crayons and can barely spell his own name.

I'm also ok with a BGC in the current condition of society we live in and the morality/lack there of. In an ideal world we could pick up a gun and walk out with it. Just a transaction. But that's not the world we live in.

Buying a house or new car=presumably financing a lot of money and securing the terms of said financing. Show up with cash on hand and that gets a lot simpler/quicker. Same can be said for high end furniture or a new bed (on top of the presumed difficulties in loading/transporting large items).

The difference in the barriers to purchasing a firearm is that they are a result of burdensome and unconstitutional laws, not a result of finance negotiations or trying to figure out how to move/deliver a heavy or bulky piece of furniture.

Anyone who claims to wait in line longer at a grocery store than it does to complete a firearm purchase start to finish is either disingenuous or must only shop the day before a major holiday lol

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself....

I remember back before the BGC for private sales...that was easy....find a gun in the classifieds you liked or the gun show...
Check out the gun...give the seller cash....and done.

Nowadays...not so much.
Gotta find a dealer...pay a huge transfer fee , my local FFL wants $50.....
Show ID...Pass the BGC and.....Wait for 10 phuckin' days...all 'cause of the stupid Washington State firearm laws.
Soon...I'll also have to pony up $18 more on top of all of the above.

Buying a new gun ain't easy either...the same as the above...but no $50 transfer fee.

Easy is finding what you like....paying for it...and leaving with it ...all at the same time / day.
That just does not happen any more.
Andy

 

[mhayd93]

Speaking only for myself....

I remember back before the BGC for private sales...that was easy....find a gun in the classifieds you liked or the gun show...
Check out the gun...give the seller cash....and done.

Nowadays...not so much.
Gotta find a dealer...pay a huge transfer fee , my local FFL wants $50.....
Show ID...Pass the BGC and.....Wait for 10 phuckin' days...all 'cause of the stupid Washington State firearm laws.
Soon...I'll also have to pony up $18 more on top of all of the above.

Buying a new gun ain't easy either...the same as the above...but no $50 transfer fee.

Easy is finding what you like....paying for it...and leaving with it.
That just does not happen any more.
Andy

I think this is perfectly stated! It just depends on what "easy" means for the individual.

For me it is exactly like you describe. For others on here, difficulty appears to be a measurement of how mentally complex a task is.

 

[Koda]

I think these analogies to grocery shopping are distracting us from the real topic

Regardless of how anyone feels its easy or hard, there is a BGC process we all go thru thats designed to keep prohibited people from buying a gun. The Lousiville shooters anti gun rant is dishonest because he wasn't a prohibited person when he bought his gun.

 

[Knobgoblin]

What bothers me the most is that law enforcement will come down hard on anyone with assets that they can seize, but let no good known criminals walk with a citation.

It is a business, no matter if it's taxpayer funded or not. They don't have to turn a profit, but seem to try nonetheless.

 

[Yarome]

Who thinks it is just about guns? No one that I know of. No one is going to argue that guns made someone commit horrible acts, but lots will argue guns are an enabler, and seek to remove that enabler. No one is arguing that so called mass shooters are not mentally ill, criminals, whatever else.

Not gonna change minds by infantilizing the opposing viewpoint into absurdity. It will come back and bite your posterior. And mine.

When these type of situations occur... do you see then pushing for mental health reform? School education reform? Community programs? Money to increase LE presence and training? Enhanced security packages for public spaces? Mental health professionals in schools? Tougher on crime laws that may intervene at an earlier stage in a persons life that may have a propensity for lawlessness... that is likely to evolve into greater crimes? Among a multitude of other areas that might address the core issues behind senseless murders.

Nope! The only thing they are selling is "gun control". As if removing all firearms from the country will put a stop to senseless person on person violence. What causes people to use a firearm to murder innocents? Why... it's the gun mfg's marketing and advertising, of course. (They say)

To say that they acknowledge there are other factors is one thing. Most rational people would agree. In the action phase though they are not addressing any of those other additional factors. Only guns.

Not only that, but they actively block and oppose efforts to address and/or implement many of the above.

In that practical sense, they are demonstrating that to them... it's only about the guns and exactly what people mean when they say, "to them, it's only about the guns". Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Buying a house or new car=presumably financing a lot of money and securing the terms of said financing. Show up with cash on hand and that gets a lot simpler/quicker. Same can be said for high end furniture or a new bed (on top of the presumed difficulties in loading/transporting large items).

The difference in the barriers to purchasing a firearm is that they are a result of burdensome and unconstitutional laws, not a result of finance negotiations or trying to figure out how to move/deliver a heavy or bulky piece of furniture.

Anyone who claims to wait in line longer at a grocery store than it does to complete a firearm purchase start to finish is either disingenuous or must only shop the day before a major holiday lol

Bruh , try buying a new car at dealership with cash. You'll be there for hours. And probably get sniffed over by some manner of cop to boot. Either overtly or surreptitiously.

 

[Yarome]

The question remains unanswered:
"not all bad guys have criminal or mental health -records-, so what would you do about preventing someone like that from getting a gun... so easily?"

The question remains because there is absolutely nothing than can be done to mitigate risk to zero and has to be considered an acceptable cost of freedom. It's like wishing for world peace.

Not to sound heartless, but as atrocious and heinous as these types of events are.... they are, statistically, so minute as to be inconsequential. We are simply making mountains out of ant hills to push an agenda.

Like DUI related auto deaths. We don't outlaw alcohol OR increase regulation of automobile ownership. It's unfortunate, but statistically inconsequential against "the greater freedom".

When free will exists, there is always an inherit element of risk in our daily lives.