Is the US better prepared for a nuclear blast today than it was 60 years ago?

[brandonlamb]

Could we detect a weather balloon sixty years ago?

In 1963? Considering we landed on the moon 1969, yea I would say we could detect a balloon for quite a long time

 

[Jay Walk]

Then we're effed.

 

[brandonlamb]

It's been said elsewhere, but "nobody wins in nuclear war"

 

[Ura-Ki]

Could we detect a weather balloon sixty years ago?

Yes, as long as it contained enough metal to reflect radar energy, Yes, American Radar could in fact detect such a devise, hell U.S. Naval Air Search Radar during WW-II could detect wooden aircraft if there was an engine, or guns, or rocket motor! Hell Surface search radar could pickup a dugout if the men rowing it had firearms and were using metal oar locks, and were wearing steel helmets!


At what range was it possible to detect things 60+Years ago, that should be the question, not IF!
A Weather balloon could be picked up by Battleship Air Search Radar at a range of about 180 nautical mines in perfect weather conditions, and in rare instances, out to just over 200 nautical miles, Where as a Destroyers Air Search Radar might detect the same target at a range of 60 Nautical Miles.

These days, it's FAR beyond that with AGIS and other advanced phased array pulsed and frequency agile systems that can actually detect decimal points of heat differential as a valid signal, there is no current technology ( Outside the United States) that can defeat those capabilities!

 

[Diamondback]

Yes, as long as it contained enough metal to reflect radar energy, Yes, American Radar could in fact detect such a devise, hell U.S. Naval Air Search Radar during WW-II could detect wooden aircraft if there was an engine, or guns, or rocket motor! Hell Surface search radar could pickup a dugout if the men rowing it had firearms and were using metal oar locks, and were wearing steel helmets!


At what range was it possible to detect things 60+Years ago, that should be the question, not IF!
A Weather balloon could be picked up by Battleship Air Search Radar at a range of about 180 nautical mines in perfect weather conditions, and in rare instances, out to just over 200 nautical miles, Where as a Destroyers Air Search Radar might detect the same target at a range of 60 Nautical Miles.

These days, it's FAR beyond that with AGIS and other advanced phased array pulsed and frequency agile systems that can actually detect decimal points of heat differential as a valid signal, there is no current technology ( Outside the United States) that can defeat those capabilities!

Which shows just how complicit Traitor Joe is in that Chinese spy balloon...

 

[The Heretic]

Hell Surface search radar could pickup a dugout if the men rowing it had firearms and were using metal oar locks, and were wearing steel helmets!

Just an FYI - the RADAR on our MLBs (nothing special, certainly not like that on a USN war vessel) had major issues finding fishing boats, including all metal boats. Our RADAR masts were 10-15' above water level and the small boats were easily hidden by waves. Many sail boats (usually very little if any metal) would have a RADAR reflector hanging from the top of their sail masts to provide visibility to other vessels. Many buoys would too (even though they were often mostly metal - except for "fast water" buoys on rivers).

I've been to the FAA/AF/NORAD RADAR station in the coastal mountains, and they could see cars driving back and forth on I-5.

Line of sight is an issue although I am not sure how over the horizon RADAR works (I haven't looked it up). I do know most land based RADAR sights are up on mountains.

 

[Diamondback]

Just an FYI - the RADAR on our MLBs (nothing special, certainly not like that on a USN war vessel) had major issues finding fishing boats, including all metal boats. Our RADAR masts were 10-15' above water level and the small boats were easily hidden by waves. Many sail boats (usually very little if any metal) would have a RADAR reflector hanging from the top of their sail masts to provide visibility to other vessels. Many buoys would too (even though they were often mostly metal - except for "fast water" buoys on rivers).

I've been to the FAA/AF/NORAD RADAR station in the coastal mountains, and they could see cars driving back and forth on I-5.

Line of sight is an issue although I am not sure how over the horizon RADAR works (I haven't looked it up). I do know most land based RADAR sights are up on mountains.

Here ya go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar

 

[The Heretic]

Here ya go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar

Yup.

Not surprising - haven't read the whole article yet, but IME (I have a EE degree, a General with RADAR endorsement, and I specialized in RF testing, specifically Meteor Burst comms), the freqs generally used in RADAR (1 gHz+) usually are high enough that they do not bounce off the ionosphere, they punch right thru it.

So, looking at the article, it appears that OTH RADAR uses low frequencies. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Diamondback]

Which also have the benefit of being more likely to detect stealth aircraft because most of those are built to hide from the high-freq bands.

 

[arakboss]

I'll sum up that entire article in one word.

"No"

At one time the USA had a good civil defense program. - No more.

Nowdays the government, infrastructure and the people are far more dependent on EMP susceptible electronic gear.

People are less self reliant (gardens, stored food, water sources)

Many homes use to have fireplaces, but the environmental crusaders have done much to eliminate that.

So the answer is "No"

Not to mention the moral decay that has taken over people in this country. The mass thefts, violence and murders that occur in good times would explode if the country was put into disarray from a nuclear attack.

 

[The Heretic]

Not to mention the moral decay that has taken over people in this country. The mass thefts, violence and murders that occur in good times would explode if the country was put into disarray from a nuclear attack.

WROL there would be more people willing to just take "justice" into their own hands and not call upon the gov to deal with it.

 

[Jay Walk]

The 1948 Chevy pickup was 175 ftlbs of torque.
Todays is as much as 975 ftlbs.

Nuclear bombs have progressed in much the same way.
I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[OldBroad44]

Just an FYI - the RADAR on our MLBs (nothing special, certainly not like that on a USN war vessel) had major issues finding fishing boats, including all metal boats. Our RADAR masts were 10-15' above water level and the small boats were easily hidden by waves. Many sail boats (usually very little if any metal) would have a RADAR reflector hanging from the top of their sail masts to provide visibility to other vessels. Many buoys would too (even though they were often mostly metal - except for "fast water" buoys on rivers).

I've been to the FAA/AF/NORAD RADAR station in the coastal mountains, and they could see cars driving back and forth on I-5.

Line of sight is an issue although I am not sure how over the horizon RADAR works (I haven't looked it up). I do know most land based RADAR sights are up on mountains.

A couple of decades ago a USA naval fleet doing some sort of exercise sailed right through the path of the annual Trans Pac (San Francisco to Hawaii ) single handed sailing race without detecting a thing. This race involved a few dozen sailboats, mostly 50' or smaller. It takes about two weeks. All the boats had metal engines, locked for the race, substantial masts, radar equipment, GPS, and radio. And they all radioed race HQTs daily with their positions and whatever else they felt like reporting. After the first few days the racers are spread out so far they are out of sight or help from each other. I knew one of the racers, so was following the race. A boat named Tiger Beetle suddenly found itself surrounded by huge warships. Very disconcerting, since sailboats cannot stop or turn very fast so as to avoid bigger ships. However, the captain of the warship was chatting with the captain of another ship, and Tiger Beetle found the frequency they were on and joined in. "This is the sailing vessel Tiger Beetle. I know where you are. Would you like to know where I am?" There was a pronounced pause. Then came the deep voice of the captain of the navy ship. "Yes, Tiger Beetle. We would like to know where you are." So Tiger Beetle gave his position and the last known positions of the other racers. None of the navy ships had detected any of the sailboats. And the navy boats were chatting with each other using open radio channels.

 

[OldBroad44]

...At one time the USA had a good civil defense program. - No more.

Actually, we never had a good civil defense program.
There were the bunkers for the important government guys. And a few families here and there built bomb shelters. As far as I know, the sum total of American civil defense was the so-called "duck and cover" drills in the schools. I don't think any of our cities with subway systems even did the obvious thing of putting emergency supplies down there.

Actually, I don't think most of the gooberment high goobers would have made it to the bunkers. If they were suppose to be flown directly from capital hill and the pentagon to the bunkers without their families I'm guessing most of the civilians would instead head for their cars and schools and home to get their families, hoping to drive to bunker with families. But roads in and around DC are jammed even in ordinary times. I'd guess they would become impassible.

 

[The Heretic]

Actually, we never had a good civil defense program.
There were the bunkers for the important government guys. And a few families here and there built bomb shelters. As far as I know, the sum total of American civil defense was the so-called "duck and cover" drills in the schools. I don't think any of our cities with subway systems even did the obvious thing of putting emergency supplies down there.

There used to be shelters and supplies, but they are mostly (if not all) defunct and the supplies either given away, sold or thrown out.

Right now the concerns are Russia and China.

Russia being the big nuclear threat (having ten times what China has), but a poor conventional war threat (NATO would overrun them quickly). Putin is paranoid and might be irrational. Hopefully the Kremlin and Russian military would not follow his orders if he pushed the nuclear button.

China being the significant conventional war threat, but not the nuclear threat that Russia is, and their leadership is more rational than Putin.

N. Korea might decide to join the party if SHTF and we have a nuclear exchange, but it wouldn't make much difference if the super powers exchanged nukes.

 

[OldBroad44]

There used to be shelters and supplies, but they are mostly (if not all) defunct and the supplies either given away, sold or thrown out.

Right now the concerns are Russia and China.

Russia being the big nuclear threat (having ten times what China has), but a poor conventional war threat (NATO would overrun them quickly). Putin is paranoid and might be irrational. Hopefully the Kremlin and Russian military would not follow his orders if he pushed the nuclear button.

China being the significant conventional war threat, but not the nuclear threat that Russia is, and their leadership is more rational than Putin.

N. Korea might decide to join the party if SHTF and we have a nuclear exchange, but it wouldn't make much difference if the super powers exchanged nukes.

Shelters and supplies for the general public? Where?

 

[The Heretic]

Shelters and supplies for the general public? Where?

Fallout and Nuclear Bomb Shelters Near Me (Locations and Options)

If a nuclear bomb were to hit, the blast would create a massive fireball, which would vaporize everything nearby. The fireball would shoot miles into the atmosphere – pulling dirt and debris with it. The

www.primalsurvivor.net

Federal Civil Defense Administration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Civil Defense Museum - National Fallout Shelter Program - The Community Fallout Shelter Plan

 

[Cavedweller]

Shelters and supplies for the general public? Where?

I grew up in L.A. in the '50s and '60s. Many underground parking garages, office building basements, and the like were designated fallout shelters. Entrances were labeled with signs like the one below. Shelters were stocked with emergency food and water, blankets, etc. I'm not sure exactly when funding for that program was cut, but I think it was sometime in the '60s. Much of the supplies made their way to the surplus market.


You can still find relics of the program for sale to collectors:

Victoreen CDV715 Radiation Detection Kit for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Victoreen CDV715 Radiation Detection Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[wired]

I grew up in L.A. in the '50s and '60s. Many underground parking garages, office building basements, and the like were designated fallout shelters. Entrances were labeled with signs like the one below. Shelters were stocked with emergency food and water, blankets, etc. I'm not sure exactly when funding for that program was cut, but I think it was sometime in the '60s. Much of the supplies made their way to the surplus market.

View attachment 1785102
You can still find relics of the program for sale to collectors:

Victoreen CDV715 Radiation Detection Kit for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Victoreen CDV715 Radiation Detection Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

It was a lot later than that. The civil defense budget didn't get cut until 1986.

 

[wired]

There used to be shelters and supplies, but they are mostly (if not all) defunct and the supplies either given away, sold or thrown out.

Right now the concerns are Russia and China.

Russia being the big nuclear threat (having ten times what China has), but a poor conventional war threat (NATO would overrun them quickly). Putin is paranoid and might be irrational. Hopefully the Kremlin and Russian military would not follow his orders if he pushed the nuclear button.

China being the significant conventional war threat, but not the nuclear threat that Russia is, and their leadership is more rational than Putin.

N. Korea might decide to join the party if SHTF and we have a nuclear exchange, but it wouldn't make much difference if the super powers exchanged nukes.

With over 500 operational warheads China has enough nukes to wipe out the US. And No, NATO could not over run the Russians. The Russians primary Nuclear strategy is to nuke Western Europe in case of an invasion of the motherland flowed by the US then the motherland as needed to repel invaders. Any thought that Russia would just lay down and allow Russia to be invaded by NATO in a conventional war is pure folly. They built their nukes for a purpose.