I got attacked

[The B]

That was simply one of many possible scenarios. When you sic a dog on someone - unprovoked - your intention is to commit violence upon their person. You are solely responsible for the violence commited thereto. Your victim has a right to eliminate YOU as a threat bucause you ARE the threat.

Thats your opinion - a prosecutor, grand jury, and trial jury would all need to agree with you

 

[Diamondback]

Thats your opinion - a prosecutor, grand jury, and trial jury would all need to agree with you

Historically, there HAVE been cases where ordering a dog to attack HAS been found guilty of Assault with a Deadly Weapon. There is precedent there.

 

[The B]

Historically, there HAVE been cases where ordering a dog to attack HAS been found guilty of Assault with a Deadly Weapon. There is precedent there.

Im not saying he's "wrong," we just have to understand that these things aint cut and dried.

dude flashes a knife in my face and says "your money or your life" - Thats pretty cut and dried.. theres plenty of precedence there. But once things get muddied up, theres no guarantees. As we've seen in countless situations where it sure seemed justified to us, but the dude gets indicted anyway.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

The spectrum is 2 or even 3 dimensional, with authoritarian types being the worst, for sure - but the problem is nobody realizes that, and instead draw the line between their perception of "the right" and "the left."

which is why its so frustrating that this board has gotten so right-leaning political in the last decade, exclusive to anyone left of center. A left-libertarian is all of your BEST ally in the PNW fight for 2A rights, but they get run out of here in the first day.

just a fun aside - i was banned from the local democrats for guns board years ago. (Cant remember what its called). I get called a flaming leftist on this board, but nope... im pretty goddamn right in the middle, basically. says som'n about perceptions and biases, i think.

The libertarian-authoritarian spectrum is distinct, in my view, from the Left-Right chasm.

Bottom line: statism is authoritarianism. It varies only by degree. The less you position the citizen above the state, the more statist, authoritarian you are. Republicans and Democrats are barely distinguishable by this metric: their rhetoric may say otherwise, but their acts are prima facie.

Subtlety never lost on the man, Trump once barked: "Do you know how much power this thing (the Constitution) gives me!!?"

Other pols - say the West Coast Cabal as I call them (Dimslee, Brownshirt, Newscum) have mastered the art of subteruge that Natalie Portman as Padmé Amidala would even herself choke on her lines as she laments the death of democracy to thunderous applause.

 

[JohnnyMac]

he started pounding on it and unrolling the whole think like a cat with toiletpaper

This is the kind of stuff that really pisses me off. Just random destruction of someone else's property. Your HOA funds are going to pay for that. That person, without any punishment, will just continue to break, destroy, unroll... stuff whenever the hell they want. When I was a kid and did stupid stuff like that, I got smacked upside the head and learned not to do it.

I would already had a gun/knife or POM in my hand after the 1st screaming rant from that deranged woman

100% this.

 

[solv3nt]

I dont know where the confusion lies...?

My confusion is that earlier you deleted a post suggesting the conservatives are the reason that we have issues with individuals with mental health and drug issues. Conservatives are much more closely aligned to libertarianism than anything remotely authoritarian or socialist of the Democrats.

So in my mind, saying "left libertarian" is like saying "fiscally conservative democrat". It's two opposing political philosophies.

 

[Mikej]

Conservatives are much more closely aligned to libertarianism than anything remotely authoritarian or socialist of the Democrats.

That's my take. Leave the law abiding alone, incarcerate the criminals and treat the mentally ill. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

There's a lot hanging on that first word there, in the case of you premptively shooting this dog owner on the off chance that she might off you with her snubby.

Nothing preemptive about it - if you are the target of a violent, unprovoked attack with a deadly weapon.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Truthfully im very dissapointed in my performance and i am/will take steps to improve. But in the moment so much is happening im fending off two opponents while my brain is running scenarios and listing possible consequences for each and in this backward run cespool if id knocked all her teeth out there is a chance id either be put in handcuffs or later sued. Running the scene over in my head i do think it escalated in large part due to me just pusyfooting around and only fending off with 30% or so if i had gone full force and just blown her off her feet with the first shove and shown some power it might have stoped the attack right there.

I got attacked by a crazy lady once and did the same thing... tried to fight her off but also not hurt her or "escalate" the situation.
I quickly learned that if it's gotten physical, the escalation has already occurred so it's best to end it quickly because they're emboldened by minimal resistance. Telling them they're insane also misses the mark.

Unfortunately, real world issues like being arrested, jail, and lawsuits occupy the important space needed to put down a surprise attack, especially from a woman.

I'm glad it turned out as well as it did for you. It ain't fair, but maybe it's time to find a different walking venue... that hood is nuts.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

My confusion is that earlier you deleted a post suggesting the conservatives are the reason that we have issues with individuals with mental health and drug issues. Conservatives are much more closely aligned to libertarianism than anything remotely authoritarian or socialist of the Democrats.

So I'm my mind, saying "left libertarian" is like saying "fiscally conservative democrat". It's two opposing political philosophies.

Depends how you define conservative. There is plenty authoritarianism demonstrated right of the center, as left of the line as well.

 

[bbbass]

Cary the bear spay size can lol it comes with a holster. It would put a hurtin on them from 20' away lol

Is bear spray legal to use on humans in the State of Oregon? IIRC in some places it is not, and one would have to read the label because using it against the directions/restrictions on the label could result in legal penalties afterwards. (Similar to using wasp spray, which is illegal to use on humans.)

But some owners seem to feel it's their god given right to let their dog run amok in the neighborhood and whatever happens it's not their fault.

Can we talk about the jerks that let their cats out to poop in my landscape/garden, then my dog thinks it's nice cologne to wear back into the house????

Fallacy. Argumentum ad hominem.

Please cite evidenxe to support your claim. Thank you.

Pretty sure if we look at your back, there is a ring attached to a pullstring.

Most guys here probably get winded looking for the TV remote.

That would be me.

Ive been around dogs, trained and re habilating troubled dogs my whole life, they have no guile and i can read them at a glance like a book, there is no domestic dog i cant handle and and i have no fear of dogs at all. In this altercation the dog was distracting but a non issue other than a ripped shirt and a few shoves later it wanted nothing more than to go home. Without letting a dog become neurotic or training, dogs just charge and bluff a show and rarely actualy attack humans with any gusto, other dogs yes most dogs will scrap with each other to establish dominance but rarely go further.

Like you, I thought I could read dogs at a glance. But that's been proven wrong too many times. As far as dogs attacking with gusto, all of the 10 or so dog attacks on me have resulted in a single bite that was deep, painful, muscle damaging, and prone to infection... IMO it is not a non-issue like it was for tearing of your shirt.

And if we are going to make generalities about dogs, to be sure dogs in a pack, unlike your single attacker, are a whole nuther animal. Same as humans in packs (group/riot behavior). Dogs roaming in a pack tend to revert to feral behavior and have been known to tear up humans and toddlers, causing serious injuries and even taking lives.

Going prone is another option here and kicking someone's knee cap as they approach.
Kicking uses the biggest/strongest muscles any geezer has whether fit or not.
Plus, remember the old adage, a life sentence for a geezer is not very long, 3 hots and a cot ($0) is cheaper than extended care. Most would be dead before the trial.
jmo,

Pretty sure you didn't mean going prone in front of an attacking dog!!

Ever been to jail/prison? It's easy to joke about 3 hots and a cot being cheaper than a care facility, but jail/prison is a terrible place. Not all guards treat you with respect, and the fín crims housed there certainly don't/won't!!! That's not something I'd risk as an option vs simply fending some crazy windmilling old bat off and everybody leaving safely except for my dignity.

If I can articulate reasonable fear of death or GBH from fellow human, I can shoot fellow human. Easy peasy.

If only it were that simple an equation. The law doesn't work the way it is written. Esp in the Willamette valley.

I guess I'm just confused by the"left" part. Libertarian is a leave me alone philosophy, and I'm having a hard time seeing where any authoritarianism fits in.

Big government socialists.

I think we are getting confused by terminology. Until "Libertarians" like the Koch Bros invaded the political right, it was much more clear who was who. The Libertarian Party was distinctly different from the small "l" libertarian philosophy of leaving me alone unless I am hurting or infringing on somebody else. IMO the small l is much closer to conservatism today, but the conservative of yesterday could be pretty authoritarian. I still don't understand "left libertarian" unless it is what my brother calls "leaning" such as "left leaning".

Also confusing is the old "Classic Liberal" is more like the small l libertarian of today. However, they are mostly gone, or at least fading in power/influence, and today's left is more of the radical socialist stripe.

conservatives are the reason that we have issues with individuals with mental health

Geraldo Rivera's expose on mental health institutions started the failures of the mental health system. He meant well, but the result is more tragic than the abuses inside the facilities. IMO he is not at all a conservative. So if we go back to beginnings of a problem, I don't see conservatives being at fault.

Depends how you define conservative. There is mucho authoritarianism demonstrated right of the center.

I agree. However, I am still stymied at the thought of small l "libertarians" having any significant component of authoritarianism. It is anti-thetical (sp) to the libertarian philosophy. Perhaps you are thinking of the Libertarian Party, the new Libertarians like the Kochs, or some other group?

 

[solv3nt]

Is bear spray legal to use on humans in the State of Oregon? IIRC in some places it is not, and one would have to read the label because using it against the directions/restrictions on the label could result in legal penalties afterwards.



Can we talk about the jerks that let their cats out to poop in my landscape/garden, then my dog thinks it's nice cologne to wear back into the house????





Pretty sure if we look at your back, there is a ring attached to a pullstring.



That would be me.



Like you, I thought I could read dogs at a glance. But that's been proven wrong too many times. As far as dogs attacking with gusto, all of the 10 or so dog attacks on me have resulted in a single bite that was deep, painful, muscle damaging, and prone to infection... IMO it is not a non-issue like it was for tearing of your shirt.

And if we are going to make generalities about dogs, to be sure dogs in a pack, unlike your single attacker, are a whole nuther animal. Same as humans in packs (group/riot behavior). Dogs roaming in a pack tend to revert to feral behavior and have been known to tear up humans and toddlers, causing serious injuries and even taking lives.



Pretty sure you didn't mean going prone in front of an attacking dog!!

Ever been to jail/prison? It's easy to joke about 3 hots and a cot being cheaper than a care facility, but jail/prison is a terrible place. Not all guards treat you with respect, and the fín crims housed there certainly don't/won't!!! That's not something I'd risk as an option vs simply fending some crazy windmilling old bat off and everybody leaving safely except for my dignity.



If only it were that simple an equation. The law doesn't work the way it is written. Esp in the Willamette valley.





I think we are getting confused by terminology. Until "Libertarians" like the Koch Bros invaded the political right, it was much more clear who was who. The Libertarian Party was distinctly different from the small "l" libertarian philosophy of leaving me alone unless I am hurting or infringing on somebody else. IMO the small l is much closer to conservatism today, but the conservative of yesterday could be pretty authoritarian. I still don't understand "left libertarian" unless it is what my brother calls "leaning" such as "left leaning".

Also confusing is the old "Classic Liberal" is more like the small l libertarian of today. However, they are mostly gone, or at least fading in power/influence, and today's left is more of the radical socialist stripe.


Geraldo Rivera's expose on mental health institutions started the failures of the mental health system. He meant well, but the result is more tragic than the abuses inside the facilities. IMO he is not at all a conservative. So if we go back to beginnings of a problem, I don't see conservatives being at fault.



I agree. However, I am still stymied at the thought of small l "libertarians" having any significant component of authoritarianism. It is anti-thetical (sp) to the libertarian philosophy. Perhaps you are thinking of the Libertarian Party, the new Libertarians like the Kochs, or some other group?

 

[RVTECH]

which is why its so frustrating that this board has gotten so right-leaning political in the last decade, exclusive to anyone left of center.

I believe it always HAS been 'right leaning political' you are just allowing it to affect you more than in the past. Maybe a a change in your 'ideology', political beliefs etc?

Bottom line is I have always interpreted this forum to be 'right leaning' however YMMV.

 

[Jonnyuma]

You got so close. Almost made it through an entire post without taking some unprovoked swipe at people you view as lesser...

... their pickup truck driving owners come chase you down

Im sure you go "eh, global warming eh?" every time it gets cold, too.

That schtick, blaming the weather on climate change, only seems to work for climate change alarmists... they use it when it's hot out, in JULY.

my hypothesis is that all of those typically drug addicted petty crime scabs that have lived their whole lives almost homeless, but never actually homeless, have now been pushed down a rung...
anyway... he quickly left my block, still scream at me... he ought to kill me and calling me a "stupid f-ing fa_got" as he backed away

just another day in my neighborhood.

He was obviously a MAGA creep.

i was banned from the local democrats for guns board years ago. (Cant remember what its called).

The Liberal Gun Club. Also the John Brown Gun Club.
I'm not surprised you were banned... they're a nasty bunch and pretty typical of 21st century progressives. Very hateful. Snark and condescension are passed off as debate points. Toxic betas on display without a hint of humility or irony.

 

[Knobgoblin]

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Someone remind me what the topic of the thread is again, I think I got sidetracked...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Someone remind me what the topic of the thread is again, I think I got sidetracked...

Melee weapons.

 

[The B]

You got so close. Almost made it through an entire post without taking some unprovoked swipe at people you view as lesser...

i drive a pickup truck - i was painting a picture, not disparaging anyone.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

If only it were that simple an equation. The law doesn't work the way it is written. Esp in the Willamette valley.

Does not change my position that I have a right to defend my person with lethal force if I can articuate reasonable fear of death, GBH, or sexual assault.

I agree. However, I am still stymied at the thought of small l "libertarians" having any significant component of authoritarianism. It is anti-thetical (sp) to the libertarian philosophy. Perhaps you are thinking of the Libertarian Party, the new Libertarians like the Kochs, or some other group?

I never stated that, however. Not sure how a person could even infer that. You may wish to re-visit my post.

 

[bbbass]

Does not change my position that I have a right to defend my person with lethal force if I can articuate reasonable fear of death, GBH, or sexual assault.

Problem is, having the right can be negated by almost any judge/jury. And Soros-bought DA's with anti-gun agenda can put one thru a lot of crap and money. Go ahead with your plan. My plan is to avoid shooting somebody if I can and thus avoid all the headache, heartache, and monetary cost of defending my actions in court. And the OP's action proves that shooting was not only avoidable, but not necessary. Argumentum aside, you do you, and I'll do me.

I never stated that, however. Not sure how a person could even infer that. You may wish to re-visit my post

Nah, I'll just admit to being confused at times and misattributing the comment. No biggie. Esp since we're so far off topic.