House Committee Votes to Hold Eric Holder in Contempt of Congress!

[Kevatc]

This is nothing more than an election year pissing match between the President and the House GOP. Why would anyone want to get re-elected to a Congress that tops out at 15% approval? My guess is $$$. This isn't even a firearms issue anymore. This is a separation of powers argument.

Agreed. Issa has had an axe to grind since the earliest days of the current administration. It amazes me that those who want Holder's head on a platter over this will not admit that for that to happen Holder would have to violate the law. It doesn't matter that he shut the program down. The only thing that matters is taking down the POTUS by proxy. Disgusting pissing match is correct. Could someone please tell me how this increase jobs or improves the econmic outlook for the country? Congres couldn't keep it's eye on the ball if the ball was stuck in their eye.

 

[Kevatc]

You and other defenders and blame deflectors are sick of it only because its your guys in trouble, where's the objectivity? Lack of objectivity = Lack of credibility

The only reason Holder is in hot water is because Issa won't recognize that what he wants the AG to do is BREAK THE LAW. Ironic that Issa's "ah ha!!!" moment will only come by the chief legal officer of the USA having to break the law of the land. It amazes me that there are some who are perfectly happy with this no win situation. This "gotcha" politics is what has created such sharp divides. Personally, I want a thorough investigation from talking to those involved in the program from the get go through the present. I want an investigation driven by a need to find the truth rather than because there is a political axe to grind. I want solutions not finger pointing and political partisanship.

 

[Chee-to]

The "punch-line" that keeps on giving !!

 

[JGRuby]

Those are not facts so they are not truth. Emotional decision making. It only helps to live in denial.

That is your opinion and differs greatly from mine. To go any further on this would surely lead to another infraction. I am trying to be good.


James Ruby

 

[Chee-to]

SHOCK: Sharpton Blames Holder Contempt Charge On Racism

SHOCK: Sharpton Blames Holder Contempt Charge On Racism

How easy it must be to live your life as Al Sharpton does. Only the race-baiting NBC News star can look at the tragic events of the Fast and Furious scandal that ended with the death of a border patrol agent and see Attorney General Eric Holder as the real victim.

 

[Dave Workman]

Dems circle wagons around Holder, resort to Jedi mind trick


<broken link removed>

 

[Bigfoot]

Get used to hearing Issa's name in every F&F report, he's the new demon. But isn't he of Middle Eastern decent, a minority?

The evidence of perjury mounts. Evidence mounting against Holder

On March 24, 2009, a 30-minute news conference was held at the White House by Press Secretary Robert Gibbs that included Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, newly appointed Deputy Attorney General David Ogden, and Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg.

About 13 minutes into the press conference, Ogden, a man already mired in controversy over his opposition to internet filters to block child pornography sites and opposition to requiring parental notification for girls seeking underage abortions, was introduced to discuss joint DOJ and ATF operations.

Ogden, who had been on the job for a mere 12 days, referred to Project Gunrunner and other ancillary ATF programs by name, and stated that he was working directly with the Attorney General on the implementation of these programs that included Project Gunrunner. For reference purposes, the entire news conference is memorialized here.

Yet two years later withHolder said under oath that he'd just learned about the program recently.

I know something the media won't report, the Border Patrols Labor Union voting to demand withHolders resignation. 17,000 of Holders own employees, they must all be racists too.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Personally, I want a thorough investigation from talking to those involved in the program from the get go through the present. I want an investigation driven by a need to find the truth rather than because there is a political axe to grind. I want solutions not finger pointing and political partisanship.

Oh really?
So then you believe that holder should turn over the 130,000+ pages of documents?
Here you are calling for a "thorough investigation," yet you believe any/all documentation of planning and execution by the ATF/DOJ should remain sequestered behind executive privilege?
Sorry Kev, but that makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!
There is no way to get to the root of the matter(s) that affected the outcome(s) of the various straw-buys without unveiling the chain of command.
Patrick Cunningham, senior federal prosecutor from AZ, pleaded the 5th, to prevent self incrimination. According to his lawyer:

Sources say Cunningham is concerned that he's caught in a pincer of sorts between senior Justice Department officials in Washington eager to shift blame to lower-ranking staffers and Congressional investigators eager to see heads roll over the investigation, which allegedly allowed more than 1000 weapons to cross the border into Mexico despite suspicions they were destined for drug cartels.

"Department of Justice officials have reported to the Committee that my client relayed inaccurate information to the Department upon which it relied in preparing its initial response to Congress. If, as you claim, Department officials have blamed my client, they have blamed him unfairly," Cunningham's personal attorney, Tobin Romero of Williams & Connolly, wrote to Issa.

"As a professional courtesy and to avoid needless preparation by the committee and its staff for a deposition next week, I am writing to advise you that my client is going to assert his constitutional privilege not to be compelled to be a witness against himself," Romero wrote. "My client is, in fact, innocent, but he has been ensnared by the unfortunate circumstances in which he now stands between two branches of government. I will therefore be instructing him to assert his constitutional privilege."

So what would you do, sans documentation? Force this man to surrender his constitutional right to avoid self-incrimination?
There is NO WAY to get to the bottom of this fiasco without the docs.

And as long as there is an appearance of a cover-up, it is certainly withing holder's purview to release those documents, as executive privilege is null and void in the event that disclosure would expose complicity in illegal activities like a cover up.

And in the event that there is no conspiracy or complicity, then it's in obama AND holder's best interest to release them.

Face it guys, there is NO legitimate reason to withhold the documents involving Fast and Furious.

 

[JGRuby]

Emails Rebuff Republican Suggestion That Bush-Era &#8216;Gun Walking' Was Always Coordinated With Mexico | TPMMuckraker

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201206150011

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/10/07/no-operation-wide-receiver-does-not-excuse-obama-or-holder/

 

[Jamie6.5]

Get used to hearing Issa's name in every F&F report, he's the new demon. But isn't he of Middle Eastern decent, a minority?

The evidence of perjury mounts. Evidence mounting against Holder


Yet two years later withHolder said under oath that he'd just learned about the program recently.

Well, looky there!
For you non-believers, I just happen to have found a c-span video of the very press conference your link discusses Bigfoot!
U.S.-Mexico Border Security Policy - C-SPAN Video Library

Ogden's portion starts at 13:20 and starts talking about the ATF ops at 16:45 and specifically mentions Project Gunrunner and his discussions with holder over the ATF activities.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Emails Rebuff Republican Suggestion That Bush-Era &#8216;Gun Walking' Was Always Coordinated With Mexico | TPMMuckraker

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201206150011

The "article" at muckraker is vague at best JG, but thanks.
I especially liked this part:

Later previously disclosed documents &#8212; from September 2007, well into the investigation that started in early 2006 &#8212; show that ATF officials were coordinating with Mexican authorities but they were unsuccessful in intercepting traffickers crossing the border and allowed weapons to flow into Mexico. Attorney General Eric Holder acknowledged that officials worked with Mexican officials during Operation Wide Receiver.

Of the e-mails they supposedly quote, they conveniently don't have names and/or dates?
Get real!?! And if those e-mails are redacted, it was holder's DOJ that redacted them!

And then you proceed on with your find, with the regurgitation of the same article in a Media Matters for America blog.
Sorry JG, but you're going to have to do better that G. Soros' pet project and those that follow his orders.
He HATED GWB, offered millions to those who would defeat Bush in '04, and started MMfA as a result of those efforts.
They carry the progressive's water. It's what they were founded to do.

No, Operation Wide Receiver Does Not Excuse Obama Or Holder | Conservative News, Views & Books
Thanks for this one too JG.
Especially this part:

By contrast, one of the signature features of Obama gun walking is that absolutely no effort to track the guns was ever in place. ATF agents have testified they were expressly ordered to stand down when they tried to follow the cartel straw purchasers. Whatever mistakes were made in Operation Wide Receiver, there's no way to argue that Operation Fast and Furious was not much worse... because they should have learned from what happened in Wide Receiver.

And THIS part:

5. The Obama Justice Department cobbled together significant inter-agency co-operation for its huge gun walking programs. As Kurt Hofmann of the Gun Rights Examiner notes, "At this point, we don't seem to have any evidence that earlier &#8216;gunwalking' involved the FBI, the DEA, DHS, the State Department, the IRS, and even the White House Security Council."

Which points out what I've said all along. That there is NO WAY the DOJ put together this many agencies and coordinated all their efforts, without knowledge and planning at the very top.
As well as the cover-up, as is pointed out here:

And, of course, there was no massive cover-up of Wide Receiver. No senior Administration officials committed perjury to distance themselves from it. The ATF was not exactly advertising the existence of the operation, or its unhappy conclusion, but that's very different from the thick stone wall Obama and his people tried to build around their far larger and deadlier operations.

 

[JGRuby]

The "article" at muckraker is vague at best JG, but thanks.
I especially liked this part:

Of the e-mails they supposedly quote, they conveniently don't have names and/or dates?
Get real!?! And if those e-mails are redacted, it was holder's DOJ that redacted them!

And then you proceed on with your find, with the regurgitation of the same article in a Media Matters for America blog.
Sorry JG, but you're going to have to do better that G. Soros' pet project and those that follow his orders.
He HATED GWB, offered millions to those who would defeat Bush in '04, and started MMfA as a result of those efforts.
They carry the progressive's water. It's what they were founded to do.

No, Operation Wide Receiver Does Not Excuse Obama Or Holder | Conservative News, Views & Books
Thanks for this one too JG.
Especially this part:
And THIS part:
Which points out what I've said all along. That there is NO WAY the DOJ put together this many agencies and coordinated all their efforts, without knowledge and planning at the very top.
As is pointed out here:

I intentionally provided nothing but the articles so that others can come to thier own conclusion. The articles are good enough for me to see them investigated. Obama and Holder definitely need to be but lets not forget the originator of this tactic and his buddies.

James Ruby

 

[Jamie6.5]

I intentionally provided nothing but the articles so that others can come to thier own conclusion. The articles are good enough for me to see them investigated. Obama and Holder definitely need to be but lets not forget the originator of this tactic and his buddies.

James Ruby

Wait a minute JG. The articles you linked there don't mention any upper echelon, D.C. based DOJ personnel. One does mention an e-mail written by the U.S. Attorney based in AZ, but that's it.
It relies on vague information and implies a number of things, but offers nowhere near the specifics required to even implement an investigation.
I strongly suggest there has already been an internal investigation by the DOJ over the matter, and knowing holder, carney, axelrod and their boss, if there was confirmed dirt on GWB or Alberto Gonzales we'd have heard about it by now.
Holder would have brought it up EVERY TIME F&F was mentioned in his presence.

 

[Trlsmn]

Can someone give me a credible understandable reason why anyone would be defending holder and his boss for willfully stabbing us gun owners in the back? It makes no sense

 

[Chee-to]

Holder Claims Emails Using Words ‘Fast and Furious’ Don’t Refer to Operation Fast and Furious

Hit the link, watch the video;

Holder Claims Emails Using Words

CNSNews.com) – Attorney General Eric Holder claimed during congressional testimony today that internal Justice Department emails that use the phrase “Fast and Furious” do not refer to the controversial gun-walking operation Fast and Furious.

Under questioning from Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), who read excerpts of the emails at a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Justice Department oversight, Holder claimed that the phrase “Fast and Furious” did not refer to Fast and Furious but instead referred to another gun-walking operation known as “Wide Receiver.”

 

[Kevatc]

Face it guys, there is NO legitimate reason to withhold the documents involving Fast and Furious.

Apparently reading comprehension is at an all time low. I'll type this real sloooooow so you can keep up: Holder has turned over loads and loads of documents and even met with Issa in person to try and resolve this. What Issa wants is ILLEGAL for Holder to turnover. What part of ILLEGAL do you not get???????????? Holding an AG in contempt is very rare. Invoking executive priviledge is very common. Clinton did it 14 times and Bush 6 times. AG's placed in Contempt of Congress other than Holder: Janet Reno. Did it go anywhere? Nope. Will the the Holder contempt case go anywhere? Nope. MONUMENTAL waste of time and resources considering the other much more pressing concerns this country faces.

 

[Kevatc]

Yes, the serious economic issues need to be addressed but like another member already stated, Obama and his cronies already had ample opportunity to address them. Due to their "agenda" and partisan politics, they blew any chance to do any real good or implement any positive changes. Also, since I am sure they did not count on losing so much control barely halfway into Obama's presidency or the fact that they are severely unpopular right now, not to mention that they are counting on another 4 years, they are scrambling to cover their butts. And doing a lousy job at it...

Did you forget that the Repub side of Congress has filibustered just about everything under the sun when it comes to Administration proposals? Obama could rubber stamp every single Repub idea and the Repub's would turn around and filibuster their own proposals because Obama was in favor of them. It's all quite pathetic. The bottom line is Congress could care less about the important stuff like the economy and jobs and continue to dance around the edges jousting with one another and politicizing every little silly pathetic thing.

 

[deen_ad]

Apparently reading comprehension is at an all time low. I'll type this real sloooooow so you can keep up: Holder has turned over loads and loads of documents and even met with Issa in person to try and resolve this. What Issa wants is ILLEGAL for Holder to turnover. What part of ILLEGAL do you not get???????????? Holding an AG in contempt is very rare. Invoking executive priviledge is very common. Clinton did it 14 times and Bush 6 times. AG's placed in Contempt of Congress other than Holder: Janet Reno. Did it go anywhere? Nope. Will the the Holder contempt case go anywhere? Nope. MONUMENTAL waste of time and resources considering the other much more pressing concerns this country faces.

And Holder has been lying all along and has been proven to be doing so. Do you REALLY think he isn't lying again?

 

[Kevatc]

Can someone give me a credible understandable reason why anyone would be defending holder and his boss for willfully stabbing us gun owners in the back? It makes no sense

Let me know what you find out please. Since this whole gun walking thing started back in 2006 I am curious what the previous Administration might have say to help find a solution to this issue.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Let me know what you find out please. Since this whole gun walking thing started back in 2006 I am curious what the previous Administration might have say to help find a solution to this issue.

They realized early on that it was a disaster and ended it.

Enter the new administration who somehow thought it was a success and re-instated the practice under fast and furious. They figured if letting a few hundred weapons go got them 9 arrests, then letting thousands of weapons go would be even more successful!

Fast and furious is the reimplementation and expansion of an already failed idea, brought to you buy the current administration.