House Committee Votes to Hold Eric Holder in Contempt of Congress!

[Kevatc]

As a direct result of Fast and Furious, people are DEAD. A LOT of people. And thus far, NO ONE has been held accountable!!

It's all relative. 4500+ Americans died in Iraq over dubious at best intelligence. If ever there was a policy and administration that needed a full on investigation it was Bush 43. Just like there was no truth coming out about that there will be no truth coming out about F & F.

 

[DMax]

It's all relative. 4500+ Americans died in Iraq over dubious at best intelligence. If ever there was a policy and administration that needed a full on investigation it was Bush 43. Just like there was no truth coming out about that there will be no truth coming out about F & F.

Lose the argument so change the topic SOOOOOOO typical Never get to the truth Just spinning. Don't tip over.

Just in case you missed it BUSH IS NOT RUNNING OR IN OFFICE. You might want to see a doc on that issue that kind of hatred is not good for your heart. WHen do libs get happy Bush is out bho is in they are still not happy which means no matter what you give them its never enough. That my friend is why your boy has created a polarized country my way or the highway. So be it in Nov.

 

[Jamie6.5]

It's all relative. 4500+ Americans died in Iraq over dubious at best intelligence. If ever there was a policy and administration that needed a full on investigation it was Bush 43. Just like there was no truth coming out about that there will be no truth coming out about F & F.

As soon as you want to push for that investigation, you'll have my support.
But remember that Bush went before congress, and the vast majority approved military action against Iraq.
Many many many Dems believed Saddam had WMDs long before GW was even elected.

But that's not what this thread is about. This is about dead American LEOs, dead Mexican innocents, and the guns used to kill them.
Those guns were supplied by Fast and Furious, and I want those that were responsible tried in court, the media, and by popular opinion.

You see Kev, it's me, and others like me, (along with the truth) that holder and obama are afraid of. Because it's an election year, and because I want the truth of their screwups made public.
Does that make it political? Maybe.

But it's not politics just for the sake of politics.
It's the political ramifications of high office holders(no pun intended) committing crimes and perpetrating the corruption of hiding them.
There is only ONE WAY for voters to hold officials accountable, and that is at the ballot box. That is why crimes like Fast and Furious need to be brought to the voter's attention at reelection time.

The reality of the situation is this:
We have a president that is so naive, so foolish and so inexperienced, he appointed a rabid anti-gunner to head the agency that oversees the ATF.
Consequently, it was that idiot's policies, and obama's desire to work towards gun control "under the radar," and far removed from the transparency policies he promised, that fostered the notion that it would be okay to place thousands of guns in the hands of murderous drug dealers. All this just to support his idea for stricter gun policies in the border states, and possibly nation-wide.

As a result, hundreds if not thousands are DEAD, and thousands of guns are in the hands of criminals.

With that many guns in the hands of criminals, placed there by Eric Holder's policies, our LEOs may face Fast and Furious guns for many years yet.
There could easily be many more Brian Terrys in the making.

And I want the truth of it ALL to come out. Because electing someone with Barack Obama's lack of experience, and attitude towards gun laws was a HUGE mistake the first time.
Electing him a second time will only reinforce his ludicrous notion that what was done was right IN ANY WAY. These foolish actions, committed at holder's behest, to further the gun control agenda will no doubt get even more people killed and further empower lethal criminal enterprise.

That's not my idea of a great American president. He made these choices, let him live with them in an election year. Let him suffer for his bad decisions at the ballot box. That's as it should be.
That's how the system works.

Not sweep them under the rug with your help, so he can return to the office and do even more damage.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yes, but I guess I expect more integrity from conservatives.
But, I digress... Politics is a very dirty game.

I wasn't talking about conservatives I was talking about Republicans.

I haven't forgiven the Rs since they made a fool outa me ten years ago. A bud and me were watching TV when the news interrupted and said the Rs had won the House and Senate. This was the first time in my life that the "Limited Government Party" controlled all three. I said to my bud "This changes everything." He said "Does it?" The Rs borrowed and spent like Ds. Actually much worse than the D administration before them did. And they knew that the boomers were retiring soon bankrupting Medicare and SS. Screw em.

 

[Jamie6.5]

See US v. Nixon where the Supreme Court stated: "the valid need for protection of communications between high Government officials and those who advise and assist them in the performance of their manifold duties" and that "[h]uman experience teaches that those who expect public dissemination of their remarks may well temper candor with a concern for appearances and for their own interests to the detriment of the decisionmaking process."

This means that documentation of deliberations by the Executive are protected to give those involved the freedom to give advice without an armchair quarterback in congress second guessing them with the benefit of hindsight. Any team working through a problem will discuss many options, even ones that are not popular.

No Doc, you need to have a look at Espy, and the courts' opinion regarding deliberations after the fact:

Obama’s Claim of Executive Privilege: It’s Frivolous | Power Line

But Holder’s letter completely fails to acknowledge what a weak reed the “deliberative process privilege” is in the circumstances of this case. In Espy, the court said:

The deliberative process privilege does not shield documents that simply state or explain a decision the government has already made or protect material that is purely factual….

The deliberative process privilege is a qualified privilege and can be overcome by a sufficient showing of need. … For example, where there is reason to believe the documents sought may shed light on government misconduct, ‘the privilege is routinely denied,’ on the grounds that shielding internal government deliberations in this context does not serve ‘the public’s interest in honest, effective government.’”

Since the documents in question (subpoenaed) are after the fictitious letter sent to Congress Feb. 4th, 2011, that denied Fast and Furious ever took place, concern only the discussions/deliberations about how the admin and the DOJ would respond to Congressional oversight, and the media/public.
They do not deal with the actual deliberative process of developing, conducting or shutting down Fast and Furious itself.

Any and all transcripts of conversations and/or correspondence within the White House, the DOJ, ATF, Homeland security etc. that involve deliberations on how to avoid disclosure, are subject to allegations of misconduct, due to the lack of candor, and the outright stonewalling that has occurred with regard to the Oversight Committee's investigation.

 

[DMax]

What make these 31 Democrates honorable(at least on paper) and handful on here would die to protect 1 and 2. Yet at the end of the day the 31 would put in gun control given the chance. Hmmmmmmmmmm Some Things to ponder.


<broken link removed>

 

[freeman3911]

WHen do libs get happy Bush is out bho is in they are still not happy which means no matter what you give them its never enough. That my friend is why your boy has created a polarized country my way or the highway. So be it in Nov.

This country has been long divided...How do you blame our 'Boy' aka THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for the polarization of this nation? I've seen so many conservatives on here trash talk all liberals before Obama was in office. The polarization of our nation is nothing new...

The hopes for a united nation of non-polarized politcal parties who can agree on compromise for the betterment of the nation is so far gone....American politics are such a joke & embarassment; I think that is something we all can agree on no matter what political faction you side with...

 

[Bigfoot]

...How do you blame our 'Boy' aka THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for the polarization of this nation?

I just searched the word Boy and you are the first to use it in the context of POTUS. What did you mean by it?

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

 

[deen_ad]

This country has been long divided...How do you blame our 'Boy' aka THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for the polarization of this nation? I've seen so many conservatives on here trash talk all liberals before Obama was in office. The polarization of our nation is nothing new...

The hopes for a united nation of non-polarized politcal parties who can agree on compromise for the betterment of the nation is so far gone....American politics are such a joke & embarassment; I think that is something we all can agree on no matter what political faction you side with...

You're partly right: this shouldn't be a partisian thing, EVERYBODY should be demanding the truth and the Democrats aren't. All they care about is protecting the President and hin minnions

 

[freeman3911]

I just searched the word Boy and you are the first to use it in the context of POTUS. What did you mean by it?

I wasn't the first to use it in context of POTUS. Did you read what I originally quoted in my comment? "Originally Posted by DMax: WHen do libs get happy Bush is out bho is in they are still not happy which means no matter what you give them its never enough. That my friend is why your BOY has created a polarized country my way or the highway. So be it in Nov."

I am pretty sure Dmax was using the term "your boy", to refer to the potus. I was pointing out that "our boy", should actually be referred to as the POTUS.

 

[freeman3911]

All the democrats care about is protecting the President. Duh.

When Bush was president all the republicans cared about was protecting him and his minions. Same goes for Clinton. Bush Sr. and all the others. Politics is about spinning your point of view to justify your actions. I dont think that is different in any party. As if the republicans are all about demanding truth and justice....Come on! Dems & Reps are all politicians playing the game.

Everyone wants the truth when the other party is committing the offense, but wants the secrecy when their own shady actions are exposed. It doesn't surprise me and I dont expect anything less during an election year

 

[Bigfoot]

Oops. Mea culpa.

 

[Dave Workman]

CCRKBA pulls out all stops against Holder

With the National Rifle Association poised to count votes and an 11th hour meeting Tuesday between Obama administration officials and representatives from the offices of Darrell Issa and John Boehner falling apart, the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has pulled off the gloves.

<broken link removed>

 

[Blitzkrieg]

This country has been long divided...How do you blame our 'Boy' aka THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for the polarization of this nation? I've seen so many conservatives on here trash talk all liberals before Obama was in office. The polarization of our nation is nothing new...

The hopes for a united nation of non-polarized politcal parties who can agree on compromise for the betterment of the nation is so far gone....American politics are such a joke & embarassment; I think that is something we all can agree on no matter what political faction you side with...

I don't believe in compromise about essential issues and I am willing to put my life on the line in that cause. Are the liberals?

Obummer is not the president, he is an illegal alien Kenyan usurper

 

[freeman3911]

I don't believe in compromise about essential issues and I am willing to put my life on the line in that cause. Are the liberals?

Obummer is not the president, he is an illegal alien Kenyan usurper

I'm not a liberal or a conservative and I don't speak for anyone else, but I'll put my life on the line for what I believe any day of the week.

Obama actually is the president. Pretty sure he sits in the oval office and makes decisions for the executive branch of the United States government on the daily....Despite you questioning his citizenship, the rest of the world recognizes him as our leader.

I was in the same boat once. A long time ago when Bush Jr. took on old Al Gore back in the day...I proudly wore my shirt that read "Not MY president" with Bush's face plastered on the front. But in the end I realized the rest of the world didn't give a frak about my shirt or my opinion.....

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm not a liberal or a conservative and I don't speak for anyone else, but I'll put my life on the line for what I believe any day of the week.

Obama actually is the president. Pretty sure he sits in the oval office and makes decisions for the executive branch of the United States government on the daily....Despite you questioning his citizenship, the rest of the world recognizes him as our leader.

I was in the same boat once. A long time ago when Bush Jr. took on old Al Gore back in the day...I proudly wore my shirt that read "Not MY president" with Bush's face plastered on the front. But in the end I realized the rest of the world didn't give a frak about my shirt or my opinion.....

You say president, I say illegal alien usurper. As bad as Bush was he was at least a US citizen

 

[JGRuby]

You say president, I say illegal alien usurper. As bad as Bush was he was at least a US citizen

People can say what they want about Obama being an illegal alien however at this point it is like pissing into the wind - it really doesn't effect anyone but the individual making the claim as the rest world and most of America accepts Obama our president.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

People can say what they want about Obama being an illegal alien however at this point it is like pissing into the wind - it really doesn't effect anyone but the individual making the claim as the rest world and most of America accepts Obama our president.

James Ruby

The rest of America will learn the truth eventually.. but many of them are such brainwashed communists/egalitarians and self haters it will not settle in

 

[Jamie6.5]

This country has been long divided...How do you blame our 'Boy' aka THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for the polarization of this nation? I've seen so many conservatives on here trash talk all liberals before Obama was in office. The polarization of our nation is nothing new...

The hopes for a united nation of non-polarized politcal parties who can agree on compromise for the betterment of the nation is so far gone....American politics are such a joke & embarassment; I think that is something we all can agree on no matter what political faction you side with...

I was in the same boat once. A long time ago when Bush Jr. took on old Al Gore back in the day...I proudly wore my shirt that read "Not MY president" with Bush's face plastered on the front.

Wow! Try reading these two quotes that you wrote, and see if you can make the connection.

I don't blame obama for the polarization. I blame people like you.
When Bush II was elected was the first time in my 40-some years of following politics that I noticed the divisive, destructive polarization you are writing about.
Those that supported Gore, that wore those shirts, and plastered their cars with the disrespectful bumper stickers started this crapola.
You guys lost the ability to distinguish between disrespecting the man, and disrespecting the office.
And now you are here decrying the polarization.
Then, as some weird form of backlash against Bush, you elected obama.

Few here disrespected obama before he started circumventing Congress, lying to the citizenry and attempting to subvert the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and ignore the separation of powers.
For some reason, he has a complicit press in his pocket, and dragging the truth out of him and his cronies takes an act of Congress. Literally!

You are correct though, he is The President of the United States, and I for one, certainly respect the fact that he holds the office.
But examples like his cabinet choices, planning, and his conduct concerning Fast and Furious, clearly demonstrate that he's certainly not one of our best presidents, and as far as I am concerned, is among the worst.
This guy makes Jimmy Carter look good!

I'm not a liberal or a conservative <snip>

You sound like walking, talking proof of the old adage that says:
"You'd better stand for something, or you'll fall for anything!"
And by the way you are defending obama in a firearms forum, in a Fast and Furious thread,...
You apparently have!

 

[deadeye]

DONE