House Committee Votes to Hold Eric Holder in Contempt of Congress!

[Kevatc]

Perhaps I am not as smart as you (libs generally feel intellectually superior), but I am having a hard time deciphering your point...

On the other hand, you seem to be missing the point that several of us have been trying to make. Obama had the opportunity to push through a lot of stuff during his first two years since the right was powerless to stop him. Of course they threw a fit, the health care law was and is an abysmal infringement of our constitutional rights. But that is a topic for another discussion. Throwing a fit does not equate to a filibuster and the Democrats at the time cared nothing for what the Republicans had to say on the matter.

Again, your comment is lost on me. However, I do not want this conversation to deviate from the original topic which is regarding AG Holder and the F&F Operation so I will refrain from getting too sidetracked.

Not intellectually superior by any stretch. I've got nothing on anyone. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I do have a good BS filter and it is pretty much full right now.

You mentioned the Obama had "absolute control" during the first two years of his term. The intent of my reply was that true as your assertion is the Repub's filibustered everything ... EVERYTHING. The Republicans The Dem's didn't filibuster their own proposals.

Getting back to the topic at had I will re-iterate what I said in my first post in this thread: this is political circus. Issa has had an axe to grind since Obama's inauguration. If it wasn't Fast and Furious it would've been something else. You choose the topic and Issa would've made it a political issue. Remember what Boehner was famous for saying early on: where are the jobs Mr. President? That is THE ISSUE that Congress should be focusing on. Instead we get Congress dancing around issue like F&F, gay marriage, interjecting itself between a woman and her physician. The Presidnent has proposed a Jobs Act to adress jobs and the Repub's have sad no. But by golly they are going to get to the bottom of this gun walking thing that some conservatives (especially on gun forums) said wasn't happening.

Somebody please let me know how many jobs Issa and Boehner create with this distraction.

 

[DMax]

Not intellectually superior by any stretch. I've got nothing on anyone. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I do have a good BS filter and it is pretty much full right now.

You mentioned the Obama had "absolute control" during the first two years of his term. The intent of my reply was that true as your assertion is the Repub's filibustered everything ... EVERYTHING. The Republicans The Dem's didn't filibuster their own proposals.

Getting back to the topic at had I will re-iterate what I said in my first post in this thread: this is political circus. Issa has had an axe to grind since Obama's inauguration. If it wasn't Fast and Furious it would've been something else. You choose the topic and Issa would've made it a political issue. Remember what Boehner was famous for saying early on: where are the jobs Mr. President? That is THE ISSUE that Congress should be focusing on. Instead we get Congress dancing around issue like F&F, gay marriage, interjecting itself between a woman and her physician. The Presidnent has proposed a Jobs Act to adress jobs and the Repub's have sad no. But by golly they are going to get to the bottom of this gun walking thing that some conservatives (especially on gun forums) said wasn't happening.

Somebody please let me know how many jobs Issa and Boehner create with this distraction.

Here comes the Regurgitated Lib talking points Brought to you by the dept of redundancy redundancy It not even good entertainment anymore.

 

[Bigfoot]

No argument here that most politicians are power hungry, deceitful, conniving, hypocrites. That's why only Ds will investigate Rs and vice versa, then when the other side gets into power they just switch chairs and arguments.

However none of this means that the underlying case is unimportant and unworthy of investigation.

Would you like to see a list of Senate hearings last year? Most of what they do is a waste of time, if they did their jobs this country wouldn't be in such a financial mess.

Could we leave politics out of this thread and keep it open?

 

[Grunwald]

Not intellectually superior by any stretch. I've got nothing on anyone. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I do have a good BS filter and it is pretty much full right now.

You mentioned the Obama had "absolute control" during the first two years of his term. The intent of my reply was that true as your assertion is the Repub's filibustered everything ... EVERYTHING. The Republicans The Dem's didn't filibuster their own proposals.

Getting back to the topic at had I will re-iterate what I said in my first post in this thread: this is political circus. Issa has had an axe to grind since Obama's inauguration. If it wasn't Fast and Furious it would've been something else. You choose the topic and Issa would've made it a political issue. Remember what Boehner was famous for saying early on: where are the jobs Mr. President? That is THE ISSUE that Congress should be focusing on. Instead we get Congress dancing around issue like F&F, gay marriage, interjecting itself between a woman and her physician. The Presidnent has proposed a Jobs Act to adress jobs and the Repub's have sad no. But by golly they are going to get to the bottom of this gun walking thing that some conservatives (especially on gun forums) said wasn't happening.

Somebody please let me know how many jobs Issa and Boehner create with this distraction.

Let me make this real simple. 2008 Obama elected and democrats have enough senators to have a super majority. Super majority means that they can stop a filibuster. They have this super majority until Ted Kennedy dies and Scott Brown takes his place.
Democrats lose supermajority as Brown sworn in - Washington Times

Until that point in time the only thing that the republicans could have held up was appointment votes.
If you are going to blame someone for something please at least check your facts - if you do not and lay out an argument based on false evidence then your credibility is gone.

 

[Kevatc]

Could we leave politics out of this thread and keep it open?

How do you keep politics out of a political witch hunt?

 

[Norm0931]

How do you keep politics out of a political witch hunt?

By investigating why ATF kept sending guns to Mexico with Eric Holder's approval. Regardless of which party is involved Holder is very opposed to individual liberties and very much in favor of the federal government knowing what's best and doing no wrong. I'd like an honest investigation to see why guns were still being sent to Mexico when the mission was already deemed ineffective and shut down once. I could care less if it was Obama, Romney, or Bush who was in office. A CBP officer is still dead by what is likely to be a gun given to the cartels by our government.

 

[FarmerTed1971]

Perhaps Congressman Issa should go to the source and ask the Arizona ATF agents responsible?

 

[Bigfoot]

Whichever government employee it was that thought arming violent drug smuggling cartels in a bordering country with AKs, ARs, granades, and .50 cal sniper rifles for the purpose of enacting anti-2nd A legislation was a good idea needs to be permanently run out government. Does anyone here disagree? If so that's ok, just speak up so we know where you are coming from.

I saw former prosecutor Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) being interviewed the other day, they asked him if he were the AG how long would it take him to find out which of his employees was the highest ranking person to approve an operation. Gowdy said he would walk the halls talking to his subordinates and he could find out that information in an afternoon. Any boss in America would have the same result because everyone in the chain would rat on the next guy up to save their job. Holder has that papertrail locked in his file cabinet or safe and the whole country knows it.

Obama and Holder both say that after a year and a half of investigating they still don't know who that top official was. That's what happens when Rs or Ds in power investigate themselves.

Don't expect to EVER find a selfless, perfectly pure group of opposition party investigators in that den of snakes Wash DC.

 

[DMax]

How do you keep politics out of a political witch hunt?

Are you saying that the killing of Brian Terry is a political witch hunt? Thats a new low

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Somebody please let me know how many jobs Issa and Boehner create with this distraction.

"Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It does not settle the West. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way." Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience, 1849

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Can someone give me a credible understandable reason why anyone would be defending holder and his boss for willfully stabbing us gun owners in the back? It makes no sense

He is a communist bent on the destruction of what is left of our Republic?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I am in no way forming an opinion here either way but have y'all considered that the withheld documents just might contain names and such that might compromise current undercover agents?

I don't care. Let them get a new career going. People are dead

 

[Blitzkrieg]

How do you keep politics out of a political witch hunt?

Cause people are dead and it requires a real investigation

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Cause people are dead and it requires a real investigation

Ssshhhh....you'll only confuse people.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Ssshhhh....you'll only confuse people.

Sorry, will go back to ignoring the nudity of the emperor

 

[Bigfoot]

The clothes have no emperor.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Obama, rex regnum et imperator Coeli,terrae et maris et omnium animalium...

 

[Bigfoot]

This was an Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force multi-agency case. These things go all the way to the top.

Read this article and you'll know that there is zero chance that Holder himself didn't know the details of F&F. It's written by a former Fed Prosecutor that knows how these work and he takes Obama and Holders story apart piece by piece.

Fast and Furious and OCDETF - Andrew C. McCarthy - National Review Online

If 5 pages and 10 minutes is too much for you then at least read page 4 here.

Fast and Furious began in the fall of 2009, when agents in ATF's Phoenix office developed their strategy — including the fateful gunwalking tactic — with the U.S. attorney. But things really got going in January 2010. It was then that the case became an OCDETF investigation. This does not just happen in the blink of an eye. It is a deliberate process. ATF and the U.S. attorney had to apply to Main Justice for OCDETF status. A case gets approval for funding — which can run well into the millions of dollars — only if senior Justice Department officials, after studying the formally submitted proposal, determine that the investigation has great promise.

The Obama Justice Department made exactly that determination. And this was no rubber stamp — it never is, given the number of agencies across the country competing over the OCDETF pot of gold. Chairman Issa's most recent memo (dated May 3, 2012) explains that, to win its OCDETF designation, Fast and Furious was "reorganized as a Strike Force including agents from ATF, FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component of the Department of Homeland Security." Because of the investigation's importance, a senior ATF agent (who later became a whistleblower) was transferred to Phoenix to help oversee the case.

The OCDETF designation enabled Fast and Furious investigators to use wiretaps. This is highly unusual in ATF-run cases — almost all federal wiretapping is done in investigations led by the FBI or the DEA. As noted above, wiretapping requires Main Justice approval. But that's not all: As I've previously outlined, federal wiretap law mandates that the application to the court describe the investigative tactics that have been used in the investigation and explain why those tactics cannot achieve the investigation's objectives without wiretapping. If the Fast and Furious wiretap applications complied with federal law, they must have described the gunwalking tactic. These applications cannot be submitted to a federal judge until they have been approved by Main Justice; they are submitted to the Department's Office of Enforcement Operations, which screens them very carefully.

There is little doubt that the wiretap applications would show that senior DOJ officials were aware of the gunwalking tactic long before Agent Terry was gunned down on December 14, 2010. But that's not the half of it. Bet your bottom dollar that gunwalking was discussed in the consideration of whether to make Fast and Furious an OCDETF case in the first place. OCDETF investigations, moreover, are carefully monitored by the Justice Department throughout, to ensure that the extraordinary flow of funding continues to be worthwhile. I'm wagering that senior DOJ officials — which is to say, Obama-administration political appointees — knew about the gunwalking for close to a year before Agent Terry's death.

With that as background, consider this little-noticed paragraph from the Issa memo:

Washington-based Justice Department officials had earlier [in 2010] discussed bringing Attorney General Eric Holder to Phoenix for a triumphant press conference with Arizona U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke to herald the conclusion of the Department's flagship firearms trafficking case. In the aftermath of Agent Terry's death, the task of announcing indictments at a press conference fell to ATF Phoenix Division Special Agent in Charge William Newell and Burke. Holder did not attend.

 

[Kevatc]

Are you saying that the killing of Brian Terry is a political witch hunt? Thats a new low

The Issa thing is anything but about finding out the truth. Holder is just a proxy for Obama. If Issa cared about the truth he would realize that in his request for more documents he was asking Holder to do something illegal.

If you think Issa is looking for the truth then shine on you crazy diamond.

 

[Doc Maker]

Can someone give me a credible understandable reason why anyone would be defending holder and his boss for willfully stabbing us gun owners in the back? It makes no sense

Has THIS entire episode, in any way:
1) Infringed upon your right to buy a firearm?
2) Resulted in any law, passed by Congress, that restricts your purchase, ownership or use of a firearm?
3) Affected any change in your personal, daily exercise of your 2a rights?

Not me, I've actually seen my collection grow. Since the GOP has the House, there's NO WAY that any anti-gun legislation will be passed. The State legislature is most likely to attempt to infringe on our rights.