House Committee Votes to Hold Eric Holder in Contempt of Congress!

[Spray-n-pray]

Can someone give me a credible understandable reason why anyone would be defending holder and his boss for willfully stabbing us gun owners in the back? It makes no sense

Unfortunately, this whole thing has devolved into partisan politics, even here on this forum. And once again, the just blame Bush crowd has surfaced to parrot their line. I couldn't care less about the previous administration. This one is corrupt, it is not transparent as promised, and Holder intentionally providing false information under oath to congress is illegal. All I would like to see is our elected officials to be held accountable, especially those sworn to enforce the law. If they are above the laws they swore to uphold, then our entire system is broken.

 

[Grunwald]

Did you forget that the Repub side of Congress has filibustered just about everything under the sun when it comes to Administration proposals? Obama could rubber stamp every single Repub idea and the Repub's would turn around and filibuster their own proposals because Obama was in favor of them. It's all quite pathetic. The bottom line is Congress could care less about the important stuff like the economy and jobs and continue to dance around the edges jousting with one another and politicizing every little silly pathetic thing.

You do realise that for the first 2 years of his administration Obama had a super majority in Congress and the democrats were able tonpass anything they wanted, as long as they all voted for it. The republicans could not filibuster anything.
In those first 2 years Obama basically gave the republicans the finger and steamed rolled over them. Go back to to conservative news report from those days and you will see them complaining that they have been complety shut out from the process.
Is this FF investigation purely political? No it is not. Doe it have a political component to it? You bet it does. However, that political component is simply that Issa will not give Holder any breaks and push him as far as he can.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

WithHolder, Nice Bigfoot, a true classic. I about spit on the screen when I laughed out loud. Thanks!

 

[deen_ad]

They realized early on that it was a disaster and ended it.

Enter the new administration who somehow thought it was a success and re-instated the practice under fast and furious. They figured if letting a few hundred weapons go got them 9 arrests, then letting thousands of weapons go would be even more successful!

Fast and furious is the reimplementation and expansion of an already failed idea, brought to you by the current administration.

Actually F&F was an "improvement" over Gun Runner, they saved money by not stopping and arresting the straw purchasers and left the Mexican government out of the loop, thereby saving them money too. No arrests so no wasting money on trials , jail cells, etc.

 

[Dave Workman]

Apparently reading comprehension is at an all time low. I'll type this real sloooooow so you can keep up: Holder has turned over loads and loads of documents and even met with Issa in person to try and resolve this. What Issa wants is ILLEGAL for Holder to turnover. What part of ILLEGAL do you not get???????????? Holding an AG in contempt is very rare. Invoking executive priviledge is very common. Clinton did it 14 times and Bush 6 times. AG's placed in Contempt of Congress other than Holder: Janet Reno. Did it go anywhere? Nope. Will the the Holder contempt case go anywhere? Nope. MONUMENTAL waste of time and resources considering the other much more pressing concerns this country faces.

You've seen the documents Issa wants? Otherwise, how would you know it is illegal for them to be turned over?

Oversight has subpoena power to get any document it requires to conduct a legitimate and full investigation. Just because some party flunky says it's illegal doesn't make it so.

You appear to be spouting the Democrat party line that was developed today as a defense strategy, and which I wrote about earlier: The Jedi mind trick.

"Move along. There's nothing here for you to see."

I have seen a lot of the documents that DoJ turned over. They were so heavily redacted as to be worthless./ Some of the pages were completely blacked out. i have a stack of stuff on my desk regarding F&F, from a variety of sources..Probably between me, Codrea and Vanderboegh, we have enough documents to fill a couple of very large file cabinets.

This does not appear to be a legitimate case of executive privilege, but a political stalling tactic to get this past the November election before it blows up in the administration's face.

These guys had eight months to argue executive privilege, but waited until literally the last minute before invoking it to keep the Oversight committee from seeing what is there. It used to be that patriotism was the last bastion of a crook. Then it became the race card. Now it has become executive privilege.

If this were a Republican president and AG making the same arguments, would you be supportive of this?

 

[Bigfoot]

Actually F&F was an "improvement" over Gun Runner, they saved money by not stopping and arresting the straw purchasers and left the Mexican government out of the loop, thereby saving them money too. No arrests so no wasting money on trials , jail cells, etc.

They did accidentally arrest some of the top cartel gun-runner suspects as they were crossing the border into Mexico with illegal goods and the agents called the top dogs and asked what to do with him. Those top dogs contacted other top dogs and after quite some time the word came down 'let them go'.

 

[FarmerTed1971]

I am in no way forming an opinion here either way but have y'all considered that the withheld documents just might contain names and such that might compromise current undercover agents?

 

[deen_ad]

They did accidentally arrest some of the top cartel gun-runner suspects as they were crossing the border into Mexico with illegal goods and the agents called the top dogs and asked what to do with him. Those top dogs contacted other top dogs and after quite some time the word came down 'let them go'.

Which saves money all the way around!

Now, if we could just find out who the "top dogs" in the US were!

 

[Bigfoot]

I am in no way forming an opinion here either way but have y'all considered that the withheld documents just might contain names and such that might compromise current undercover agents?

Forgive me if I'm wrong on these numbers. The committee initially asked for 70,000 documents. Boehner told them to narrow it down so the committee decided to request only 1,300 documents for the time period AFTER the operation was closed. The committee is now trying to find out who was behind the cover-up, that letter full of lies, the one that the Feds retracted much later. After it's a crime to provide false testimony to Congress, the Feds went after Roger Clemens for much less.

Even if classified information is involved they have mechanisms to shield that info by only disclosing it behind doors.

Ya know the Republicans are still the stupid party. If they were smart they would name all of these documents Classified-Top Secret-Makes Obama Look Mighty and they could read about all of it in the NYTimes the next day. These guys aren't exactly tight lipped about National and even International Security matters, unless it makes them look bad and then it's Executive Privilege time.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Let me know what you find out please. Since this whole gun walking thing started back in 2006 I am curious what the previous Administration might have say to help find a solution to this issue.

Here you are making a statement like this one, after accusing me of having a reading and comprehension problem?
What part of the term "Oversight" do you not understand?

Then you accuse Republicans of partisanship in this investigation. Un-freakin'-believable!

Bi-partisanship goes both ways. When you are willing to meet somewhere in the middle on this, your opinion will be valid.
Until then, you're just exposing yourself as a partisan parrot of obama, holder and the DNC.

And in a gun forum no less,...

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

So far no paychecks are showing up in the mail - based on that fact I cant agree with your conclusion.
I cannot forgive or forget what I consder the worst presidency in my lifetime and that was the Bush and Cheney gang.

James Ruby

You must be too young to remember the Nixon years....or Carter. (Although, Carter was a "trustworthy" president. I didn't like his politics, but at least I believed him when he talked).

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Mc Carthy was right.. the US government and the media/hollywood then and now was and is riddled with communists bent on the destruction of our Republic

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/joe-mccarthy-was-right/

I would include Obongo, although I passionately hate the Bushes as well

 

[JGRuby]

You must be too young to remember the Nixon years....or Carter. (Although, Carter was a "trustworthy" president. I didn't like his politics, but at least I believed him when he talked).

I was in highschool back then and was not as concenred about politics as I am now.

I will admit that Carter based on what I remember was a piss poor president but as a humanitarian I feel that he has exceeded.
I dont think that he could of done one without the other. GW and Cheney are doing nothing but hiding at this point.

James Ruby

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

GW isn't hiding. I saw him sitting in the stands at a Rangers game a while back....

Cheney was/is an idiot...

But trying to imply they were the worst administration in history is easy to disprove....Imperial presidents like Nixon and Obama make him look good...

 

[JGRuby]

GW isn't hiding. I saw him sitting in the stands at a Rangers game a while back....

Cheney was/is an idiot...

But trying to imply they were the worst administration in history is easy to disprove....Imperial presidents like Nixon and Obama make him look good...

Again that is a matter of opinion - I do consider GW the worst in my life to date.
As far as GW hiding - his own parties candidates dont even want him around.
If it wasnt for GW and Cheneys failed presidency I might of even considered registering as a Republican.


James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

As bad as the bushes were FDR and LBJ were worse

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

FDR, Nixon and Obama were, at least in my opinion, the "imperial" presidencies. Their belief system was such that they honestly (or at least, appeared to believe) thought/think they can do whatever they wish, Congress and the Constitution be damned.

When the President threatens the Supreme Court (FDR, Obama) or tries to ignore the law (Nixon, Obama) they act as kings, not as elected officials in a republic.

Luckily, so far, we haven't suffered irreparable harm (yet).

 

[DBagnall]

Did you forget that the Repub side of Congress has filibustered just about everything under the sun when it comes to Administration proposals? Obama could rubber stamp every single Repub idea and the Repub's would turn around and filibuster their own proposals because Obama was in favor of them. It's all quite pathetic. The bottom line is Congress could care less about the important stuff like the economy and jobs and continue to dance around the edges jousting with one another and politicizing every little silly pathetic thing.

I have forgotten nothing. I also remember very keenly that the Obama administration had absolute control in the first two years of his presidency. Republicans were essentially powerless. As a result, they got steamrolled and now the Dems are crying because they can't get their way...

Is it partisan politics? Absolutely! Are we sick and tired of it? I know I am! But bipartisanship requires both sides of the aisle to meet in the middle and so far neither side has been willing to do so, contrary to your quoted statement. Like another member said here, is the Holder business purely political? No, there are serious and legitimate concerns being raised. Is there politics involved? Oh yeah, but that is par for the course.

Unfortunately when you get a room full of politicians, your chances of getting anything meaningful done are slim at best.

Also, I want to add that it has become immensely tiresome to hear people playing the blame game. Who cares if you didn't like Bush, get over it, move on. We have a different president now who has nothing better to do than blame his predecessor. And you know what? We might have a different president next year and I am sure he will continuously blame Obama for all of our woes too. Wouldn't it be a novel idea to just take ownership and move on? Political games are getting very old and that is a big reason why we very well might not see a second term under Obama. (Here's to hoping.... :drink

 

[Kevatc]

I have forgotten nothing. I also remember very keenly that the Obama administration had absolute control in the first two years of his presidency. Republicans were essentially powerless. As a result, they got steamrolled and now the Dems are crying because they can't get their way...

Using health care as an example Obama and the Dem Congress did just that. They are accussed of trampling the Consttution and stuffing it down the throats of the American people. The Repub's threw a fit that would shame a 2 year old. No matter what Obama does ... even it is a fully supported Rebpu idea he is going to get trashed for it.

But bipartisanship requires both sides of the aisle to meet in the middle and so far neither side has been willing to do so, contrary to your quoted statement.

Relative to the portion of your quote above .... The Dems filibustered their own legislation?????? Really???? Come on!

 

[DBagnall]

Relative to the portion of your quote above .... The Dems filibustered their own legislation?????? Really???? Come on!

Perhaps I am not as smart as you (libs generally feel intellectually superior), but I am having a hard time deciphering your point...

On the other hand, you seem to be missing the point that several of us have been trying to make. Obama had the opportunity to push through a lot of stuff during his first two years since the right was powerless to stop him. Of course they threw a fit, the health care law was and is an abysmal infringement of our constitutional rights. But that is a topic for another discussion. Throwing a fit does not equate to a filibuster and the Democrats at the time cared nothing for what the Republicans had to say on the matter.

Again, your comment is lost on me. However, I do not want this conversation to deviate from the original topic which is regarding AG Holder and the F&F Operation so I will refrain from getting too sidetracked.