Home invasion or intruder scenario: whats your plan?

[mjbskwim]

I tell you what,you can call any shotgun load you want 'the best',but I guarantee you,the guy who comes into my place when I have #8 bird shot in the tube,is NOT walking away.

After 3-4 shots,he will go down.
I promise...probably after one hit,at indoor ranges.

Now if you have mile long hallways,your mileage will vary

All in all,if you use a shot gun,shoot for the 5 ft height and you will stop the intruder.That's the beauty of a shotgun.

The main thing here is puting yourself in between the intruder and your children.
I'm guessing the wife will want to do the same

Both my ex's carried and weren't too keen on attackers

 

[sed]

mjbskwim - I am glad you've found something that works for you/that you feel comfortable with your plan. After all, that's what really matters.
I agree with you, birdshot at close range can inflict major damage (especially to unprotected parts of the body i.e. face).
But for me and my situation, I won't rely on birdshot if someone is trying to harm a loved one, especially when you have so many other options available.

A few things I'll add.
Keep in mind the season. Now that it's winter, it's reasonable to expect an intruder to be wearing multiple layers/heavy clothing (i.e. leather jacket). This will make a difference on the effectiveness of birdshot.
Also, if the attacker is a bigger/thicker person, birdshot will also not be as effective.
If this person is on the move in my direction, I don't want to rely on 3-4 shots to stop the threat. I will use heavier shot capable of eliminating the threat as fast as possible with as few of shots as possible before any damage can be inflicted to loved ones.

That's my thinking, my opinion (worth about two cents), that I freely share.
I appreciate you sharing yours and others sharing theirs, whether I apply that thinking to my situation or not I still value the information. Hearing different ways of thinking and angles on things only helps to develop or solidify what works best in our own personal circumstances.

Centerfire - good luck working out the strategy/tactics that work best for you in protecting your loved ones!

 

[clearconscience]

Washington and Oregon both have the castle law, but too bad they also have the duty to retreat attached to that law. So basically you have to use every avenue possible to get away from your own property before using deadily force. It's f-ing crazy! So I buy my own house and property and I can't protect it?!
I moved to KY and they have the stand your ground law which is just as it sounds. Someone breaks in and you fear for your life you have every right to shoot them dead. Without having to retreat from your own house.

Whoever wrote duty to retreat should be drug in the woods and beaten half to death....Then let the animals have the rest.

 

[The B]

Washington and Oregon both have the castle law, but too bad they also have the duty to retreat attached to that law. So basically you have to use every avenue possible to get away from your own property before using deadily force. It's f-ing crazy! So I buy my own house and property and I can't protect it?!
I moved to KY and they have the stand your ground law which is just as it sounds. Someone breaks in and you fear for your life you have every right to shoot them dead. Without having to retreat from your own house.

Whoever wrote duty to retreat should be drug in the woods and beaten half to death....Then let the animals have the rest.

WTF?

i've rarely seen a less accurate description of local self defense laws.

there's only ONE "castle law" in all of America- it's in Texas.

there is NO duty to retreat in Oregon, and i'm pretty sure it's the same in WA.

"castle doctrine" precludes "duty to retreat." if you live in a duty-to-retreat state, you do NOT have castle doctrine.

 

[MA Duce]

WTF?

i've rarely seen a less accurate description of local self defense laws.

there's only ONE "castle law" in all of America- it's in Texas.

there is NO duty to retreat in Oregon, and i'm pretty sure it's the same in WA.

"castle doctrine" precludes "duty to retreat." if you live in a duty-to-retreat state, you do NOT have castle doctrine.

Right on the money.

 

[clearconscience]

I retract my previous statment.

Here's from WIKI, which isn't technically sound law.
The statute in Washington state appears to be very simply and broadly stated.[24]

The law allows use of deadly force in the lawful defense of oneself, a family member, or any other person, when there is reasonable ground to prevent action(s) of the person slain to commit a felony or to do injury or harm, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, on those in their presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which they are.

Washington state doesn’t have a specific Castle Doctrine law, but has no duty to retreat as precedent was set when the State Supreme Court found "that there is no duty to retreat when a person is assaulted in a place where he or she has a right to be."[25][26]

And Oregon I believe has neither, However, you have to believe (as in any situation) that your life or the life of your family has to be in immediate threat.

Either way I wouldn't trust an Oregon or Washington jury to save me.
And in my opinion if someone breaks into my home I should be able to shoot them if they have a weapon or not. If they are breaking into my home I believe they will use weapons I may have against me.

 

[NuthinFancy]

I retract my previous statment.

Here's from WIKI, which isn't technically sound law.

Here is the relevant WA statute.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

See also this clause from RCW 9A.16.110

(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.

 

[mjbskwim]

mjbskwim - I am glad you've found something that works for you/that you feel comfortable with your plan. After all, that's what really matters.
I agree with you, birdshot at close range can inflict major damage (especially to unprotected parts of the body i.e. face).
But for me and my situation, I won't rely on birdshot if someone is trying to harm a loved one, especially when you have so many other options available.

A few things I'll add.
Keep in mind the season. Now that it's winter, it's reasonable to expect an intruder to be wearing multiple layers/heavy clothing (i.e. leather jacket). This will make a difference on the effectiveness of birdshot.
Also, if the attacker is a bigger/thicker person, birdshot will also not be as effective.
If this person is on the move in my direction, I don't want to rely on 3-4 shots to stop the threat. I will use heavier shot capable of eliminating the threat as fast as possible with as few of shots as possible before any damage can be inflicted to loved ones.

That's my thinking, my opinion (worth about two cents), that I freely share.
I appreciate you sharing yours and others sharing theirs, whether I apply that thinking to my situation or not I still value the information. Hearing different ways of thinking and angles on things only helps to develop or solidify what works best in our own personal circumstances.

Centerfire - good luck working out the strategy/tactics that work best for you in protecting your loved ones!

Bird shot at 20' ,in a 1' pattern will still go through a face mask and a neck gator.
And if a shot gun was my choice,I would be using 00 buck or possibly slugs.

I don't use bird shot or a shotgun.Heck I'd have to find my pistol.

BUT!!!! if you get within 20' of my place and my dogs go off.
Then the intruder has to decide if it's worth it.
By that time I can have my choice of weapons.The all are within reach of the bed,BTW

 

[waltermitty]

from a home defense perspective, it may sound like a good idea to have a
shotgun, but given the close confines of walls, rooms, etc there is a part of
me which feels that your generic Title 1 shotgun, with 18-20+ inch barrel
might not be the best unless you are guarding a single approach. a full
length shotgun may not be the panacea. if the environment is such that
you find yourself having to maneuver or change position, simple physics,
ie angular momentum, is something you should consider.

fortunately, i have an AOW shotgun at my disposal, and which is still a very
viable option for folks living in WA.

 

[Keys1971]

Good idea on the shotgun. After you purchase your shotgun and ammo of choice and have been trained, be sure to pattern your shotgun. What I mean by that is place some targets at different ranges, for example 3yds, 5 yds, 10 yds, etc. Then fire your ammo of choice at each different range and find out for yourself what your spread is. This way you know what your shotgun will do at different ranges. Good luck.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I would fear going to prison or steep civil liability for shooting an unarmed person entering my home. The first round could be a non-lethal bag/rubber projectile, been kicking that idea around.

Then the D.A./cops would have evidence that I was trying to use non-lethal force at least at first. Lots of people seem ok with shooting to kill someone tip toeing off with their TV, or just entering their home. Just because I might have the legal right to kill someone doesn't mean I WANT to kill someone or deal with the possible consequences. I truly would not want to kill unless I had no choice - the person was armed and raised a weapon - then yes, it would be over for them. Even if there is a Castle law that will prevent you (possibly) from being criminally liable it doesn't mean that the perpetrator's survivors aren't going to come after you in civil court. It isn't worth losing all I have to stop something from running off with a TV.

That said, I have respect for the concealed carry people (not my thing) because I know if I am ever in deep bubblegum they will be my only hope; there won't be a cop for miles around or if there were most would duck and hide if not backed up by twenty other cops.

As for home (nighttime) defense, a shotgun w/ a 1200 lumen RRT-3 flashlight mounted would completely blind a prowler even at 25 yards away. They would be helpless to return anything but random fire, even in ambient/day light. Like looking directly into the sun.

Making a home as difficult as possible to break into in the first place would also be a high priority. Strike plates on door jams, braces on infrequently used doors or deterrents such as cameras, dogs, etc.

 

[Bunny]

If you get within 20' of my place and my dogs go off.
Then the intruder has to decide if it's worth it. By that time I can have my choice of weapons.The all are within reach of the bed

I agree with everyone's comments on dogs as early alarms. Unless your dog is the kind that goes crazy and barks at every racoon and animal that moves in your yard. They make great deterrents, and give you extra time to organize what you're doing.

On that note, I can see how racking the slide could scare away a threat, and also how it could give away your position and give them an advantage if they choose to advance.... But to the people who choose to keep their position secret and wait for them to leave or get closer (assuming the intruder doesn't know you're there and aware of their presence, even with lights on and all of that), are there any laws about having to make your presence known? Is it lawful to shoot a person who's now too close to you and a threat, if they didn't know that you were even there?

What I'm asking is, do you have to give an intruder a clear warning to stay away, and somehow make your presence known and intent to defend yourself obvious, before you actually do have to defend yourself... in order to protect yourself and rights in court? Basically, do you have to give the intruder a chance to not be stupid and just take the tv and leave? Or are you within your rights to keep quiet and act defensively with whatever happens?

I'm inclined to think that anyone entering my home without permission and posing a threat to me has zero rights and doesn't deserve fair anything, but I don't want to go to jail either. So I'm curious.

 

[The B]

I agree with everyone's comments on dogs as early alarms. Unless your dog is the kind that goes crazy and barks at every racoon and animal that moves in your yard. They make great deterrents, and give you extra time to organize what you're doing.

On that note, I can see how racking the slide could scare away a threat, and also how it could give away your position and give them an advantage if they choose to advance.... But to the people who choose to keep their position secret and wait for them to leave or get closer (assuming the intruder doesn't know you're there and aware of their presence, even with lights on and all of that), are there any laws about having to make your presence known? Is it lawful to shoot a person who's now too close to you and a threat, if they didn't know that you were even there?

What I'm asking is, do you have to give an intruder a clear warning to stay away, and somehow make your presence known and intent to defend yourself obvious, before you actually do have to defend yourself... in order to protect yourself and rights in court? Basically, do you have to give the intruder a chance to not be stupid and just take the tv and leave? Or are you within your rights to keep quiet and act defensively with whatever happens?

I'm inclined to think that anyone entering my home without permission and posing a threat to me has zero rights and doesn't deserve fair anything, but I don't want to go to jail either. So I'm curious.

check your local state laws.

but in oregon, no. in oregon, the ONLY thing you have to do is articulate a realistic threat. in oregon, it's been established that feloniously entering your home IS a threat- therefor, articulating that the individual was feloniously inside your home = articulating a threat of serious bodily injury or death to those inside.

and once the threat has been established, there are no additional boxes to tick. you just shoot, and keep shooting till he's either on the ground and not moving or conditions are such that he's somehow managed to surrender by word and action.

the law should be simple- if you're in danger, shoot the guy. fortunately, in our beloved state, legislation recognizes this. it's utterly insane to think people can somehow run through a checklist of things they need to do or establish before they make the 1/10,000th of a second decision to defend human life. the difference between life and death in a gunfight is no longer than the time it takes a person to squeeze a trigger- the victor is the one who does it first. make sure that's you.

 

[clearconscience]

I don't know if I would go for bean bag/rubber rounds. If you have a threat then eliminate it. Period.

Also I have a dog, and she silently barks/growls at little noises outside, but not nearly enough to wake me up. But if someone knocks on the door or there's a noise that spooks her, door opening, etc. She goes ape scat. You would think it's world war three in our house. So she is a great house dog. And she's great dane, pitbull, and blk lab. She is a huuuuuge wuss, but sounds like cujo.

She did go nuts the other night and my wife woke me up, went and checked things out. False alarm. She does freak out when there's animals close. She went out to eat at night (2am) she's a night eater. and looked out our slider. There's a bunny that sleeps behind our heater unit outside and she barked at that.
So I feel really comfortable with her there.

 

[The B]

indeed... rubber bullets are worthless, if you're training to use your gun. i'm not aware of a single trainer who teaches to fire one round, in a self-defense situation. MSR... Minimum Standard Response should be between 3 and 5 rounds. that means when you make the decision to fire, you fire 3 to 5 rounds as fast as you're able to accurately, before you take a 1/10th of a second break to assess, before reengaging. the odds of causing incapacitation with one round are very low. i don't have numbers off the top of my head, but it's something like less than 1 out of 5 odds of a single shot causing immediate incapacitation. if you have not incapacitated, you are still in danger of dying.

in light of the reality of how gunfights generally play out, i cant see how a rubber first round will do any good... since the next 4 rounds following it aren't rubber.

 

[SteelyDan]

I live in a very rural area...police response would be 30 mins or more. Waiting for 911 to arrive is not an option in my opinion because once they have breached the permiter I have no place to run! It's amazing how many people will drive 800 feet down a dark driveway in the middle of the night for some silly reason. I'm not talking people casing the place, just dumb people who dont think about the repurcussions of looking for a place to turn around or sightseeing in the country!

I don't go outside with guns ablaze, but always have a pistol when I go out to see what the dogs are barking about.

 

[centerfire]

I have no intention of shooting someone who is hauling off my tv or other property.
If there is a perceived life ending threat to me or my family from said BG headed for me then its gonna be lights out for him.
I have no intention of hitting him with a beanbag or rubber bullet cause I dont think that would be very effective. Especially if he/her/them is doped up or whatever.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I have no intention of shooting someone who is hauling off my tv or other property.
If there is a perceived life ending threat to me or my family from said BG headed for me then its gonna be lights out for him.
I have no intention of hitting him with a beanbag or rubber bullet cause I dont think that would be very effective. Especially if he/her/them is doped up or whatever.

I agree and decided to forget about the beanbag/rubber bullet option. I just don't have a hard on to kill someone. If it is me or the intruder, you bet, lights out for him.

 

[mjbskwim]

This is by far one of the worst ideas you could ever have.

I have no intention of shooting someone who is hauling off my tv or other property.
If there is a perceived life ending threat to me or my family from said BG headed for me then its gonna be lights out for him.
I have no intention of hitting him with a beanbag or rubber bullet cause I dont think that would be very effective. Especially if he/her/them is doped up or whatever.

OK,about 99.99999% of crimes are some how drug or alcohol related,no?
Buying,selling,needing,whatever

So there is about a 100% chance that the guy that broke into your house to steal the TV is on drugs,Jonesing for more drugs ,owes someone money for drugs......and is willing to risk HIS life by breaking in your house.
He has shown he does not fear you.He has shown he will do illegal things to meet his needs.
Will he stop at just taking the TV,etc? Will he confront you and ask for money? Will he be willing to attack you or your loved one to maybe get your gun and kill you?

I say this to people that are going to start carrying a gun,if you can't kill someone don't carry.Same applies here.
If you hesitate,will he then decide to come after you?

If someone is in your house to rob you,he needs to be shot.Next time he may be a little more brazen and hurt or kill someone.

But that's just me.

 

[Drkside45]

I keep a 45acp with a tac light on it,or 12ga (with a tac light) on my nightstand or the 12ga. juster under the bed.I have a big mean dog that sleeps inside at the front door.He's like a built in alarm,and knows his job at night.If you fiddle with the door or window at all he comes unglued.Most intruders would call it quits right there,**** everyone in the house is awake now to boot!.With my weapon,a blinding tac light and my dog (Harley) I feel very confident of having the upper hand on any intruder.I put up with the dog sleeping in at night only to help keep my family safe.I think its a great system.And with my wife and daughters at stake I wont hesitate to shoot any one that breaks in.