Guns Not to Buy For Survival

[Retread]

I have three of the HP-22 pistols, because I can afford them. I've read a good many reviews about these on line, but only a few writers took the time to understood their subject.

The HP-22 is cheap. It is not reasonable to expect a $150 pistol to be as finely finished and one that costs $800, or even $400. These are great little pistols for fellas that have the ability to finish them into what they can be.

Like Kel Tec pistols if you take the time to see how they work, and spend some Dremal time on them, you wind up with a nice little pistol that is, in fact, reliable and a lot of fun. My oldest HP-22 just passed the 3,500 round mark. The first 500 rounds fired were to break it in, and I had all kinds of problems. Once past that I could finally see enough wear to know where to polish with the Dremal and lubricate properly. I had a few more FTF and FTE while I was figuring out the mags. Since then I have fired more than 2,900 rounds through it, with zero problems. I'm really happy with these little guys and recommend them highly to folks that are mechanically inclined and on a tight budget.

It is, in my opinion, less than intelligent, and not fair to the firearms marketplace, to slander a gun one has not invested time into. Not all of us can afford a fine pistol, let alone the ammo to feed it.

The HP-22 for survival weapon? Once it is finished as stated above, it is way better than nothing. It really depends on what a person can afford. I keep one of these in my bug-out/get-home bag with three mags and 1/2 a brick of ammo.

By the way, the manufacturer sells every single part for these things except the frame, and the pistol comes with a lifetime warranty. Mags are, for example $12 from Phoenix Arms. Not bad, not bad at all !

 

[Wheeler44]

I hear ya Retread....I have a Mossberg 702 Plinkster...Well I had one, my wife decided it far superior to the 10-22 stainless/walnut 22" barrel that she "thought" that she liked...

I took the time to learn the rifle and to tweak little things to make it "right".... It has been to at least 12 Appleseeds as a loaner..That's 500 rounds a weekend with no cleaning....So at least 6000 rounds with no problems...All for $99.00..

W44

 

[MountainBear]

Gentlemen, while any gun is generally better than nothing, I will respectfully disagree with you. I understand that guns require a break-in period where malfunctions can and will happen. But even as a gunsmith (which I am, and have been for many years), I will not buy a gun if it requires me to work it over simply to allow it to function properly. It is different than smoothing things up or making them work better, but no firearm should require a dremel or "fluff and buff" in order for it to function. This should have been done at the factory. The fact is that if the company has to charge another $25 to $50 in order to do this and have the gun run the way it should initially, it should be done.

I am all for inexpensive guns, but not guns that are so cheap and poorly built that they need extra work to function...

 

[Retread]

As you said Mountainbear, "smoothing things up" is what I did, after firing 500 rounds. Obviously the gun worked to do that, you error in assuming it would not function without a"fluff and buff". Polishing the feed ramp, slide contacts and such with a Dremel is a common practice on many guns. I believe the gun is worth the investment of my time for it to be consistently reliable. What the heck is wrong with that?

 

[Wheeler44]

Mountain Bear...I don't see how aligning ejectors and smoothing rough painted surfaces, smoothing spring guides and slightly relieving spring tensions on a hundred dollar .22 is a bad thing....The more expensive .22s such as the 10/22 often take aftermarket parts to make them run flawlessly.. Many high dollar 1911s seem to require a high round count break-in and even then might need a throat job..

I have never used a Dremel on a firearm

 

[deadeye]

I'd add the majority of the AMT pistols to that list.

How many have you owned to make that determination? I have never had an issue with any of the models I currently have or had. The only thing that would detour me from using one for survival would be weight but a .30 carbine handgun would be a good all around item to have.

 

[coop44]

seems to be a lot of folks here defending their bad purchases. I worked at a warranty center for years and have seen some of the famous junk listed here. there have always been companies that try to cash in on your fears and lack of finances. What ever you do get, remember, if a deal is too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[orygun]

I've had 3: 22 Auto Mag, 30 carbine, and a Backup in .45.

I had two of those. The Automag II and the Backup .45. With the exception of the Automag II not liking CCI shells neither one of these gave me any trouble at all and I thought they were well made guns. Don't really miss the Backup 45. Very heavy and wasn't good for plinking because of the trough it had for a sight, but I do miss that Automag II. Too expensive for normal plinking, but sure was fun to shoot!

One of my friends has the Automag in 30 Carbine and no matter how hard I try, I can't weasel him out of that gun.

 

[Just Jim]

Every gun listed as not to buy probably has been used in a crime. I would bet more of the cheap guns have killed people in crime than exspensive ones. Point being in WWII the allies parachuted a cheap one shot 45 liberator behind enemy lines for the resistance. The idea was to use that gun to kill somebody with a better gun and get theirs. Any gun is better than no gun unless the gun is allready broken of course.

jj

 

[orygun]

Don't get me wrong, the II and III were very fun to shoot, great plinking guns to burn up ammo, but I did not find either to be reliable or well built (stamped parts, rough edges, poor finish, etc). I played with the trigger quite a bit on the backup, and never was able to get it where I wanted it and still have it set off primers reliably.

I do remember the grips on my II being cheesy plastic. The trigger on the Backup? It was like 20 pounds and had a long pull! (not really 20 lbs, but was HEAVY for sure!)
It didn't bother me though. If I needed that gun for what it was made for, that heavy trigger would not have mattered!

 

[mauser54]

Hey NuthinFancy, great videos! I agree with you and zeezee.

 

[boxer13]

I've never "got" threads, discussions, arguments like these. All it turns into is one person using conjecture/anecdotes/friend's uncle's cousin's half-brother twice removed anecdotes to prove why x gun is bad, and then some other people will come in with their anecdotes to disprove. And the conversation goes no where fast. I think some on that list are fine, others I can't say.

Regardless I'm not going to proclaim that x gun is flawless or that Y gun is terrible because absolutes, hyperboles and generalizations don't make for convincing arguments.

 

[zeezee]

Friend Jim, I don't agree with you, not one bit. A gun that is unreliable is like a cheating spouse, not worth having around, because just as soon as you need them they fail and fail miserably.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Well, I personally will carry whatever firearm I have confidence in firing and hitting the target, regardless of manufacturer. Currently, I believe that "Vertroue en Gott und die Mauser" is a very good idea for a rifle....and for a handgun I have a nice older wheel gun as well as a few different 9x18 handguns.

See, personal choice is exactly that, personal. What I look for in a firearm is what I need, not what you need or the general population might want in an urban environ. Living in the wild open I don't expect to be in a huge urban firefight or prolonged combat, so I am not going to gear up for it. I believe that avoiding those types of situations is far better than preparing for them....

Whatever you have, if it works FOR YOU, is far better than some magic list on an internet forum.

 

[billdeserthills]

I shoot my friend's Phoenix Arms .22 all the time. Now that he has removed the safety crap it works great.

 

[idaho]

Nwcid, I tend to disagree with your analogy of weapons currently in service. In afghanistan, the reason you dont see old .30-06 1917's is because we weren't tramping around afghanistan during ww1. It has everything to do with availability, not what works or is 'battle proven'. You'll see it soon enough, because next time we have to visit the middle east, they WILL have american battle rifles. Simply because we gave them hundreds of thousands of them to arm the current crop of police and army. If we went to war in the mediterranean, you would probably see garands and carbines sticking out of the bleached rocks, because its what we gave them fifty years ago. The british held afghan way back when, and that is why you see .303 enfields frequently. So, anyways, I guess I took offense to you knocking the 'effectiveness' of the American battle rifle, in part due to the incorrect analogy.

 

[Oohrah]

Agree with you Idaho Got all kinds of Milsurp from the 60s and DCM, and a few years ago with the CMP. The later supply of Garands, Carbines, and ammo came from all over from lending them to those in the mediterranean, and allies. All that ammo and rifles mostly all found kind and loving homes, with just a few Garands left. Anything that shoots, functions, and allows hits in vital areas is fine for me. Low end of what I kept is three Ravens in the 25 Auto. Simple trouble free blowbacks
Except for one, that had a couple of failure to feed twice in the first mag. All three have had 250 rounds without a hitch. The little Winchester HP with a steel ball in the nose does expand, making it a little more lethal than the FMJ stuff. The Ravens, I believe were the early model of the Phoenix. At least they look similar. Glocks and my 1911, and various wheel guns are for primary use for serious stuff. A man can never have too much ammo or guns!

 

[zeezee]

Given up on AUTOS? Sad. Maybe you need to look at the S&W 627, 8 rounds of .357 as fast as you can pull the trigger. It's on my wish list.

 

[Just Jim]

Friend Jim, I don't agree with you, not one bit. A gun that is unreliable is like a cheating spouse, not worth having around, because just as soon as you need them they fail and fail miserably.

Even a cheating spouse is good for one last shot LOL. Problem is don't get yourself in a need position. Pick when you want things to work....friend LOL

 

[WIRED tactical]

Haha, I chuckled upon reading this list.

My Father only had one pistol for hiking and for home defense. It was a Phoenix Arms .22 auto. That thing was horrible. Two different safety's, could not release the mag without one safety being on, nor pull back the slide. Plain bad.

Jumping ahead, lets just say I was able to convince him into buying a Walther PK380 instead. Now that is a much better pistol (not the best defense caliber but with full jacketed hollow points its great)