Guns Not to Buy For Survival

[zeezee]

Best Avoided

Phoenix Arms – Low price, and low quality.
Lorcin – Cheaply made, with poor quality parts.
Hi-Point – The carbines are fair, the handguns are prone to failure.
Bryco – Jam – Fire – Jam – Fire, Jam, Jam, broke firing pin.
FIE – Well known for their inferior quality, currently out of business.
Llama – Some good, others junk – best to avoid the lot.
Sterling – mediocre quality and usually unreliable, currently out of business
Charco Arms – Formally Charter Arms, chambers rough, the action tends to lock up and they have a tendency to shave lead.
Intratec – Tec-9, Low quality construction, inaccurate, will not reliably feed hollow-point ammunition.
Norinco – Quality control is hit and miss, some of their products seem to be pretty good considering the price, others not so much.


<broken link removed>

Read More

 

[NuthinFancy]

I may not agree with some on that list, but I would add:

Jennings/Jimenez Arms and anything else in that family tree of firearms (see Bryco and Lorcin).
Rohm (the original Saturday Night Special). Those are all over GB for uber cheap, and there is a reason why.

 

[zeezee]

Hey, NuthinFancy, like your videos, just curious why you would disagree with this list. Just your $.02 please.

 

[44magyota]

Taurus.....Horrible quality control

 

[The B]

there's about ten manufacturers i'd immediate add to that, and if i were to type them all out, it would probably turn into 30.

most gun manufacturers produce unacceptable guns

 

[dario541]

Almost any gun is OK to play with, but for serious business I would stick with known American manufacturers. It may be neccessary to repair a firearm some day and foreigners may not be around. Although some imported guns are expensive, quality always beats cheap.

 

[22many]

While I do agree with most of the list My person experience leads me to disagree with a couple of them. The llama is bottom of the barrel but I had a llama 1911 that I have shot thousands of rounds through with not a single problem. It ate any ammo I put through it. Wish I still had that gun.

I've also owned a norinco sks and a 1911 and while I didn't like the "made in china" stamping on the side they were also very reliable.

 

[NuthinFancy]

Hey, NuthinFancy, like your videos, just curious why you would disagree with this list. Just your $.02 please.

I am no relation to the youtube NuthinFancy... I do have a couple of youtube vids, but they are embarrassing crappy so you will have to do without my attempt at being Spielburg.

I own a Hi-point C9 and a 995. The carbine IMO is much better than so-so (even though it is only a 10 round mag), and the comment about pistol being prone to failure seems more based on internet lore than actual reported experience. Mine has not failed, but then again I don't shoot it all that much, and I don't use anything but 115 grain at the range.

I also own 2 Tokarev clones from Nornico (both in 9mm, but I have an extra 7.62 barrel and mags if I get a notion to fire milsurp ammo). The TT33 design has been in service in comblock countries for darn near 80 years, and, like the 1911, it has made it's bones. IDK about the quality of Norinco in general, but the design of the TT33 is just so simple there is not a lot to screw up, and spare parts are widely interchangeable between all the different clones.

And I own a Jennings J-22. I would not sell it for $.01 because I would be racked with guilt thinking about the poor SOB that got stuck with it.

 

[MountainBear]

Owned a HiPoint carbine. It was okay, but sold it quick. The HiPoint compact 9 was the worst gun I ever owned. would only feed 115 grain FMJ ammo. No hollow points I tried would feed. No longer or heavier rounds would work...

 

[Silver Fox]

Best Avoided

Phoenix Arms &#8211; Low price, and low quality.
Lorcin &#8211; Cheaply made, with poor quality parts.
Hi-Point &#8211; The carbines are fair, the handguns are prone to failure.
Bryco &#8211; Jam &#8211; Fire &#8211; Jam &#8211; Fire, Jam, Jam, broke firing pin.
FIE &#8211; Well known for their inferior quality, currently out of business.
Llama &#8211; Some good, others junk &#8211; best to avoid the lot.
Sterling &#8211; mediocre quality and usually unreliable, currently out of business
Charco Arms &#8211; Formally Charter Arms, chambers rough, the action tends to lock up and they have a tendency to shave lead.
Intratec &#8211; Tec-9, Low quality construction, inaccurate, will not reliably feed hollow-point ammunition.
Norinco &#8211; Quality control is hit and miss, some of their products seem to be pretty good considering the price, others not so much.


<broken link removed>

Well I'd agree with everything all the way up to Norinco.... Are they out of their mind???? The Chinese produce alot of cr@p but not there guns. The AK/AKM rifles, top notch designed and built to outlast other AK's. The ChiCom SKS, great rifle. The 1911's, also great guns with better steel some other brands. But hey it's the Internet and everyone is an expert
with the right to sound-off their opinion.

SF-

 

[orygun]

This kind of fear mongering gets the 'Patriots-for-Proft' all juiced up.

Only you can prevent the next 'Obamania' price hike.

Keep your voices heard and your wallets closed.

SF-

Nicely said.

 

[coosbaycreep]

Best Avoided

Phoenix Arms – Low price, and low quality.
Lorcin – Cheaply made, with poor quality parts.
Hi-Point – The carbines are fair, the handguns are prone to failure.
Bryco – Jam – Fire – Jam – Fire, Jam, Jam, broke firing pin.
FIE – Well known for their inferior quality, currently out of business.
Llama – Some good, others junk – best to avoid the lot.
Sterling – mediocre quality and usually unreliable, currently out of business
Charco Arms – Formally Charter Arms, chambers rough, the action tends to lock up and they have a tendency to shave lead.
Intratec – Tec-9, Low quality construction, inaccurate, will not reliably feed hollow-point ammunition.
Norinco – Quality control is hit and miss, some of their products seem to be pretty good considering the price, others not so much.


<broken link removed>

Who on earth would even consider something like a lorcin or intratec for survival anyway? Most of those companies are low volume saturday night special type manufacturers. You could add all the other junk gun manufacturers to that list as well, and it'd still be just as pointless.

I disagree about hi-point and norinco, and there seems to be a lot of folks who like llamas too.

The two hi-point pistols I had were both accurate and reliable. And if they weren't, the company is American made and will fix it regardless of whether or not you're the original owner or the tenth.

The only norincos I've owned/shot were AKs/SKSs...which just so happen to be two of the most rugged and reliable, if not THE most rugged and reliable semi-auto rifles ever made. And I'd take a chinese AK over most of the garbage that comes out of Romania too.

I didn't see Kimber or Kahr on that list, and there sure seems to be a lot of people that have problems with those not working worth a crap.

 

[The B]

just because there are worse manufacturers than the one in question does not make the one in question a good one. norinco AKs are not necessarily "bubblegum" but they're definitely not what you'd be buying if looking for a "good" AK.

 

[Nwcid]

Almost any gun is OK to play with, but for serious business I would stick with known American manufacturers. It may be neccessary to repair a firearm some day and foreigners may not be around. Although some imported guns are expensive, quality always beats cheap.

I have to disagree with that. I ma not bashing American guns or companies but there are MANY more import firearms that have decades of prove "battle" use that few if any American arms can. Mosin Nagant is over 100 years old still going strong and battle proven. AK-47, 60 years, old battle proven. FAL, 56 years old, battle proven. What gun does the US have? We have the M16 that just hit 50 years old and is battle proven. While there are many US makers that have been around a long time what other model of gun do we have that is over 50 years old AND battle proven.

I use the word battle proven since this topic was about survival. The conditions will be unknown so I am assuming that a person would be preparing for the worst not the best. In a case like this I would take a $100 MN over a Rem/Win/Browning/Ruger/ect bolt gun any day. While they are nice guns they are not the same.

While I do agree there is truth in the "quality beats cheep" but expensive does not always = quality and inexpensive does not always = poor quality. Just like anything else you need to know the product you are buying.

 

[MarkAd]

What battle proven guns from U.S. and you only have one listerd. Did your mama drop you on your head as a child?
You forgot these
M1
M-1A
M-14
1903 ans 1903A1
1911 45 acp
M-60 machine gun
mossberg 12 ga shotgun

 

[Nwcid]

What battle proven guns from U.S. and you only have one listerd. Did your mama drop you on your head as a child?
You forgot these
M1
M-1A
M-14
1903 ans 1903A1
1911 45 acp
M-60 machine gun
mossberg 12 ga shotgun

Ok, so you got me on the M14/M1A. I agree the others are great guns but the amount of use they have seen compared to many of the Euro guns is light. I have own/have owned all the guns you list (M1A not M14, and my M60 was a semi auto) and they are great reliable guns for sure. But none of them except maybe the 1911 has seen 50+ years of continuous fighting.

I should have said over 50 years old and still in current use (that was my intent and rereading I see I missed that). When you turn on the TV and they show the places our troops are fighting in you see very few US weapons in the hands of the enemy. You see tons of 50 year old and older guns being used. I know a lot of that has to do with what is available but still when these folks have been fighting with these guns for 50-100 years sure says something to their quality even if they are cheep.

 

[Scott]

Yes, but the guns you mention as being better also suffer more losses as in LIVES. So you keep your MN and hit the battle field running.

 

[atypicalparkie]

Owned a HiPoint carbine. It was okay, but sold it quick. The HiPoint compact 9 was the worst gun I ever owned. would only feed 115 grain FMJ ammo. No hollow points I tried would feed. No longer or heavier rounds would work...

Dang, that's too bad about your C9, MB. I know they sure aren't the best guns out there, but my 1st pistol was a C9 that would just fire anything & everything with no problems. After 4 years & a couple thousand rounds sold it to a buddy who wanted to get back into shooting, he's put another few hundred rounds through it & the thing keeps chuggin' along. 115 & 124gr just fine, fmj, hollow, etc. Though granted didn't put any 147's through it, I'll have to give that a go next time I go shoot with that buddy. I guess quality control was asleep at the switch some days, and really attentive on others... it's always a drag to get a lemon but I'll probably pick up another one sometime as a b.o.b. extra, hope I'll get as lucky as with the 1st one.

 

[Silver Fox]

What gun does the US have? We have the M16 that just hit 50 years old and is battle proven.

There are other U.S. weapons that are battle proven, that have already been listed, but the M-16/AR-15.... (note: this isn't another bashing thread of the AR/M-16), but I wouldn't really call it 'battle proven'. It is a great weapon for a large army (lots of your buddies packing the same weapon) with an equally large logistics section manned by professional Logisticians who support the maintenance of the weapon. The AR-15/M-16 is kind of like High School Prom Queen, looks good all dolled up but eventually she'll let you down. Better to go ugly early.

Orygun- on another thread the topic of 'hurry up and buy before they ban' got started and it really irritates the he11 out of me when 'we' the American gun owners are our own worst enemy. We created the 'obamania' buying spree that jacked prices up. He must have been laughing six months after he was in office for all our fearing of the unknown. What really pi$$es me off is that our friends and neighbors, the fellow gun owners who are supposed to have our backs, were the ones down at Wal Mart, Bi-mart etc... buying what ever they had in inventory and jacking up the prices to y'all at the gunshows. I refused to be a part of that and when a friend of mine (member of this board) wanted me to buy some small rifle primers ($29.00 per thousand) at the marksman in puyallup and then let him sell it at the PDX gunshow it irritated me. I refuse to be a part of it and everyone needs to calm down and stop acting the sheep at the back of the flock just because of this AZ situation.

I am using my signature line to address this issue and I invite you to do the same.

SF-

 

[Silver Fox]

The only norincos I've owned/shot were AKs/SKSs...which just so happen to be two of the most rugged and reliable, if not THE most rugged and reliable semi-auto rifles ever made. And I'd take a chinese AK over most of the garbage that comes out of Romania too.

I didn't see Kimber or Kahr on that list, and there sure seems to be a lot of people that have problems with those not working worth a crap.

Hey CBC-

I gave up trying to educate people about Norinco's for two reasons: 1. they don't get it; 2. If everybody believed you the prices would go up to reflect there true value. So, lets keep this as our little secret ok?

SF-