Guns Not to Buy For Survival

[idaho]

So, just speculation for the sake of the thread, 'guns not to buy for survival'. What about Mosin's? I know they are everywhere, and have developed this romantic image of the poor militiaman's go-to-rifle. I would say its on the way out, and that it would not be wise to stock up on them despite being available. My reasoning being, they are prolific now due to being made by the hundreds of thousands many many years ago. And despite surplus bulk ammo being available *now*, I would say that the ammo will eventually dry up. (at least the good deals). As they arent making those bulk packs that are leftovers from the cold war anymore. And the weapon isnt that great. I have never liked them, both the 91/30 and 44 I owned. The actions are rough, accuracy is hit or miss lottery depending on the rifle seems like, and the only real quantity of range reports I've read involved home grown militias that claim 1,000 yard accuracy. And, lastly, but secretly important to most gun owners, they are ugly. Just forward thinking I guess, I would drop the dough on a weapon that is being made in ridiculous numbers currently, as ammo production is increased to match the demand, and bulk ammo prices follow. Examples, AR's. .223 bulk ammo is widely available. Any semi-bolt .308 or .30-06 as the ammo is and hopefully always will be at peak demand for the American hunter (.30-06) and soldiers (.308). In conclusion, I just think it would be better to buy one solid, modern ammo rifle, as opposed to buying several mil-surp relics to rise from the ashes with.

 

[dario541]

I was mostly referring to modern made firearms when I wrote my last post. I want quality in things that I purchase new. I would opt for American made brands because of the more likely availability for spare parts. As a mechanic, I am well aware that anything manufactured can break down. Getting and keeping extra parts is absolutely essential for "survival" weapons.
Someone mentioned Norinco SKS's. I have a couple of them. One is stock and seems to be very durable. I believe I would trust my life to it. The other one has been factory modified to take AK-47 magazines. I have shot it and everything seems to be OK. However, the welding on it looks atrocious! As an ex-mechanic, I have welded for years and know what proper welding should look like. I am considering redoing some of the welds but I am not sure if I really want to tackle this job.
I, too, would trust Moisin-Nagant rifles. Their design is simple, but utterly dependable. One of my main go-to guns is a German made 98 Mauser in 8MM. This is a "super" gun. Almost all bolt actions are based on this old design. In the Shotgun News you can find almost every replacement part for the Mauser (There aren't very many parts to this fine old rifle). I also could live with the Springfields and M1 rifles. I hope to own an M1A some day. If a Garrand ever comes my way I will give it a good home! I also have heard enough to believe that a FAL might be desirable.
The word for this post is "DEPENDABILITY"!

 

[speelyei]

I think some poor choices for survival guns would be:

M1917 Browning water-cooled machine gun

CVA flintlock tower pistol

Pardini FPM 50 Meter Free Pistol

Chauchat CSRG M1915

Pfeifer Zeliska .600 Nitro Express revolver

this is not a comprehensive list, these are just a few that came to mind.

 

[Oohrah]

Are you sure that you aren't drawing attention to yourself to encourage pop up targets to flock to your quiet seaside area? I
like the Browning ideal, but most likely hard to conceal, and setting head spacing can sometimes be tricky. Most of the Greek surplus 30-06 I believe is gone, and that was $.50 a round before they ran out!

 

[speelyei]

Unfortunately, I don't live there on the coast anymore. I need to change that...

the OP asked for input on Guns Not to Buy for Survival, I'm just adding my 2 cents! I could list a few more...

Young Rail Gun

Barnes Nebula 2 .25cal pneumatic rifle

Colt Pocket .25 ACP

 

[Decker]

Nail gun.

-d

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well I'd agree with everything all the way up to Norinco.... Are they out of their mind???? The Chinese produce alot of cr@p but not there guns. The AK/AKM rifles, top notch designed and built to outlast other AK's. The ChiCom SKS, great rifle. The 1911's, also great guns with better steel some other brands. But hey it's the Internet and everyone is an expert
with the right to sound-off their opinion.

SF-

You beat me to it. Anyone who says Norinco is junk is a nerd and a newb

I would bet my life on my Norinco AK56S rifles and my Tokarev pistol as far as reliability

 

[Blitzkrieg]

just because there are worse manufacturers than the one in question does not make the one in question a good one. norinco AKs are not necessarily "bubblegum" but they're definitely not what you'd be buying if looking for a "good" AK.

Obviously you've never owned or shot one

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I have to disagree with that. I ma not bashing American guns or companies but there are MANY more import firearms that have decades of prove "battle" use that few if any American arms can. Mosin Nagant is over 100 years old still going strong and battle proven. AK-47, 60 years, old battle proven. FAL, 56 years old, battle proven. What gun does the US have? We have the M16 that just hit 50 years old and is battle proven. While there are many US makers that have been around a long time what other model of gun do we have that is over 50 years old AND battle proven.

I use the word battle proven since this topic was about survival. The conditions will be unknown so I am assuming that a person would be preparing for the worst not the best. In a case like this I would take a $100 MN over a Rem/Win/Browning/Ruger/ect bolt gun any day. While they are nice guns they are not the same.

While I do agree there is truth in the "quality beats cheep" but expensive does not always = quality and inexpensive does not always = poor quality. Just like anything else you need to know the product you are buying.

The parts issue will be irrelevant if you own a MN or Norinco/Polytech AK.. because they are virtually unbreakable

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Ok, so you got me on the M14/M1A. I agree the others are great guns but the amount of use they have seen compared to many of the Euro guns is light. I have own/have owned all the guns you list (M1A not M14, and my M60 was a semi auto) and they are great reliable guns for sure. But none of them except maybe the 1911 has seen 50+ years of continuous fighting.

I should have said over 50 years old and still in current use (that was my intent and rereading I see I missed that). When you turn on the TV and they show the places our troops are fighting in you see very few US weapons in the hands of the enemy. You see tons of 50 year old and older guns being used. I know a lot of that has to do with what is available but still when these folks have been fighting with these guns for 50-100 years sure says something to their quality even if they are cheep.

The M14 is still seeing action today as a Designated Marksman Rifle. That would put it pretty well near 52 years of service

 

[idaho]

^Not military service, but I would consider that also the modern resurrection of the M1A being used by law and hunters alike, adds credibility to the utility/usefulness/reliability of the platform.

 

[MA Duce]

Anything by Daisy.

 

[Decker]

Anything by Daisy.

Maybe but a bb/pellet gun could be useful in taking small game without letting the world know you're there...

 

[MA Duce]

Maybe but a bb/pellet gun could be useful in taking small game without letting the world know you're there...

Yeah..but I would go with my trusty Crossman 990 Powermaster. At 20 pumps it has the same muzzle velocity as a .22 long.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

^Not military service, but I would consider that also the modern resurrection of the M1A being used by law and hunters alike, adds credibility to the utility/usefulness/reliability of the platform.

Scroll down on the right for M14s and variants still in service in the sandbox

M14 rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Decker]

Yeah..but I would go with my trusty Crossman 990 Powermaster. At 20 pumps it has the same muzzle velocity as a .22 long.

Dang. That just got added to my research/shopping list.

-d

 

[idaho]

Blitz, thank you for the link, I am well aware of the fact that it is still in service. I was stating that in addition, its non military service use is an indicator of its usefulness.

 

[deen_ad]

Simply because we gave them hundreds of thousands of them to arm the current crop of police and army.

Same with Mexico and the supposed "assault weapons" being found in Mexico!!

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[Cmiller]

I thought Colt is the oldest battle proven gun ever?

 

[Burt Gummer]

"Intratec – Tec-9, Low quality construction, inaccurate, will not reliably feed hollow-point ammunition."

Mine has never had one problem, never FTF, never jammed, not even once regardless of ammo. At the range it is a blast to fire with its extended twist-on barrel extension and long mags. More accurate than just about any 9mm handgun I have fired.

Of course it isn't high end or anything, but it really isn't as bad as people say; at least that is my experience. Since it is apparently only worth about $300 I'll probably never sell/trade mine unless possibly for a Kel-Tec that uses Glock mags. I bet the Tec-9 is more accurate, would be curious to find out.

Because it is a pistol it can be fired at indoor ranges (like a Place to Shoot), unlike the Kel-Tec.