Gun Violence and Mental Health!

[titsonritz]

Or it's just someone being used to stir up trouble, j6 they had all kinds of people there that wanted to start violence.

Tucker had a guy on explaining antifa.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641072339432480768

GOP lawmakers override veto of transgender bill in Kentucky

 

[titsonritz]

Pertinent to Gun Violence and Mental Health

The Texas Tower Massacre

 

[Knobgoblin]

What a time to be alive.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Pertinent to Gun Violence and Mental Health

The Texas Tower Massacre

I was 14 when that happened and remember it well. At the time they said he had a brain tumor and never mentioned any psychotic drugs.

 

[arakboss]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641072339432480768

GOP lawmakers override veto of transgender bill in Kentucky

I was kidding in my earlier post about a Tran Revolution but now........

 

[Member 53328]

"If you keep telling mentally ill kids that people disagreeing with them is literal genocide, eventually one of them is going to pick up a weapon."

- Joel Berry

 

[titsonritz]

What a time to be alive.
View attachment 1393569

GET OUT

 

[titsonritz]

 

[bradsteen]

Alrighty Folks, I'm dropping this live Grenade here to have a thought provoking discussion I think it's long past time we had, and with that, I ask that folks be respectful of each others differing opinions and not let emotions turn this into a dumpster fire!
How do we a a society address the Issues of So called "Mass Shootings" or "Gun Violence" that seem to take place on a daily basis, how do we tackle this WITH OUT infringing on a persons 2nd rights, and how do we deal with this in a humane and just manor with the tools we have, or the limitations of our constitution?

First, we all know this is a large issue with many factors, including the known fact that almost EVERY single shooter was on Psychotic meds and was well known to Law Enforcement!
How do we address the mental health issue's in a meaningful way with out restricting the rights of normal folks?
How do we identify such individuals and intervene in a caring manor while still attempting to stop the potential escalation of a a shooting?
How do we increase public support and funding for mental health support and care?
How do we square a persons Constitutional Rights, with out offending the constitution in these cases?
How do we address the Gang violence issues in a meaningful manor that gets positive results?

Well this is a loaded topic. I would say we have to first recognize that the one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work, because not all perpetrators are the same. Gang violence and mass killings are completely different; the perpetrators have different motivations and stressors. This is one of the many reasons gun control initiatives fail - they don't try to address the individual factors that motivate or contribute to the person ultimately deciding to commit violence. Instead they focus on the object the person uses to commit that violence. That's the equivalent of giving someone an aspirin to treat a gunshot wound. The patient is in pain, and aspirin can be used to treat pain, but it will not stop the patient from bleeding out before your eyes. We have to stop the bleeding, and that means targeting the source of that bleeding - human behavior.

Secondly, we need to call out gun control efforts for what they are - distractions and diversions, empty gestures that divert essential resources away from getting to the root of the problem. I'm not saying that we should claim malicious intent on the part of gun grabbers. Quite the opposite, I think doing that creates additional distraction that further detracts from efforts to solve the problem. Instead we should treat such approaches much as a surgeon would evaluate methods of conducting a complex operation - coolly and with dispassion. Simply saying "I understand your perspective. However, the approach you propose does not target the root of the problem and will not result in reduction of violence. Here are some other approaches that are more likely to be successful" takes the emotion out of the equation. Don't get mad, be the adult in the room. As Mark Twain said, "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Thirdly we have to recognize that we won't solve the problem overnight. Our society is seeing the effects of behavioral conditioning that has taken place over decades. There are hundreds of contributing factors and thousands of variables that affect how people react to their environments, and it will take at least 1 generation (probably 2) for solutions to yield tangible benefits. This is a long game. Short-term trade-offs invariably have long-term consequences, so consistent approach is important.

As for specific approaches to solving the problem, here are a few:

• A list of symptoms or warning signs of potential violence needs to be built, vetted, and then socialized via education and public information campaigns. Just like everyone knows the warning signs of stroke or heart attack, people should be able to identify warning signs of hostile or threatening behavior. This should not be a catch-all list of every random thing - that is far too easily weaponized by one group or another. Instead it should be a discreet list of very specific indicators, and a person exhibiting these behaviors should be engaged early on by parents, teachers, colleagues, etc. to get them help or reported to law enforcement for support. Some examples of specific indicators might include:
  • Communicating or implying an intent to cause harm to self or others
  • Willful disregard for safety of self or others
  • Erratic, unusual, or manic behavior, such as intense mood swings
  • Fixation on righting perceived wrongs or proving toughness / superiority
  • Use of dehumanizing terms when referring to individuals or groups they conflict with
  • Fixation on death, particularly death by violence
    
• We need law enforcement to be able to take action when a person is reported exhibiting multiple behavioral indicators, and their action must preserve the person's right to due process of law. The problem with red flag laws is they don't set a high enough bar to justify immediate intervention - it's like saying "you're probably dangerous, so we're going to take your guns, but you're free to wander around and do whatever you want". If we are so concerned about a person's behavior or actions that we are willing to curtail their constitutional rights by taking their guns away, there should be evidence compelling enough to justify not only seizure of firearms, but also involuntarily commitment and/or execution of a search warrant to determine whether they are planning some kind of hostile action. The decision to intervene must be based on evidence, not just testimony from a concerned party. While honest mistakes are understandable, there should be civil and criminal penalties for willful false-reporting, and reports from parties who are in known social conflict with the subject (divorce, etc) should require an additional layer of scrutiny. For example, when folding this concept into existing law enforcement procedures this proposal might be enacted in this way:
  • If someone has communicated or implied their intent to harm themselves or others, that provides probable cause for arrest and psychiatric review.
  • If multiple other indicators are present but they have not communicated or implied an intent to harm others, that provides probable cause for a search warrant. If evidence of attack planning is found in executing the search warrant, the bar of "implied intent to cause harm" is met and they can be arrested and reviewed by a psychiatrist; if no evidence of attack planning is found, they can be referred to a mental health professional for assistance.
    
• We need to destigmatize the act of seeking support for mental health issues. People who suffer from emotional or psychological issues need help, and oftentimes they'll be the first to admit it. They should feel empowered to disclose their concerns to a doctor, a loved one, or law enforcement, and seek treatment without fear of being irreparably harmed legally, financially, or socially by the process. They should have a mechanism to hand over their firearms for safekeeping and know there is a clear path for them to get them back when their issues have been addressed.
  
  
• We need to make conflict resolution and de-escalation an integral part of all levels of education. Having it available as a public resource for people of all ages would also be good, though I question how much older folks would take advantage of it or put any of it into practice.
  
  
• Firearms safety should be taught at all levels of education as well, not just for children know how to act around guns, but also so they can identify when someone else is being unsafe with them and remove themselves from the situation. The goal should be to help children think of guns as just another tool, one that must be handled safely and treated with respect, but just a tool nonetheless. Taking away the taboo aspect of firearms will hopefully reduce troubled youths' fixation on guns as a mechanism of retribution or power over others.
  
  
• Situational awareness training should be taught in all levels of education, and through public information campaigns. People today of all ages spend most of their time with their faces glued to a phone, computer, or TV. Getting people to observe and assess their surroundings will dramatically increase the likelihood of someone observing and reporting concerning behavior.
  
  
• We need to encourage people to intervene immediately when an active shooter event takes place. Run / hide / fight training is a good starting point, but the sooner someone confronts the shooter, the more likely they are to stop the attack and save lives. Training on how to identify items in our environment as weapons and use them effectively may be a good place to start.
  
  
• The overwhelming majority of persons who commit crimes with guns are already prohibited from owning them, so we need to get REALLY tough on gun-related crime. Mandatory extensions of sentences for gun-related crimes should be the norm, as should additional sentencing extensions for persons previously convicted of other gun-related crimes.

 

[tkdguy]

Let's be careful...mental health/mental illness is a psychiatric condition of disorders of thinking, perception, mood, etc. as distinctively different from psychological disorders of personality, such as criminal behavior associated with, by example, antisocial personality or psychopaths. In general, gang related gun violence is associated with antisocial or psychopathic personality types, but can be mixed with psychiatric conditions of mania, psychosis, schizophrenia, etc. Pure criminals are devoid, in general of psychiatric conditions. Substance abuse is considered a personality disorder by current Oregon State Criminal Law.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Wow, here is a timely video that address's much of what we're discussing here! Well worth the watch, this guy really has a great sense of things as they are and where we are heading and how to work forward!

 

[Member 53328]

Wow, here is a timely video that address's much of what we're discussing here! Well worth the watch, this guy really has a great sense of things as they are and where we are heading and how to work forward!

Good episode. Listened to it a few days ago. By far one of my favorite podcasts.