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This.Correct - from my understanding (not a lawyer or legal expert though) the FOPA in 1986 banned a national registry of guns but states that already had them were grandfathered in.
FFLs are required now to keep all their 4473s on file as long as they are in business, and if they go out of business the records go to the ATF.
Was it as long as they are in business or 20 years?Correct - from my understanding (not a lawyer or legal expert though) the FOPA in 1986 banned a national registry of guns but states that already had them were grandfathered in.
FFLs are required now to keep all their 4473s on file as long as they are in business, and if they go out of business the records go to the ATF.
I just did a search and you're correct (will edit my original post) it appears it is 20 years, it looks like the ATF "prefers" FFLs to keep records as long as they are in business however after 20 years it is not legally required.Was it as long as they are in business or 20 years?
Either way it is a safe bet that anything with a serial number is in a database somewhere.
It's 20 years under federal law, though in practice and my experience most shops just keep them forever.Was it as long as they are in business or 20 years?
Either way it is a safe bet that anything with a serial number is in a database somewhere...even if it is not supposed to be. Laws don't seem to apply to the powers that be.
This is why I have often wondered if a private sale (in say Oregon) that takes place through an FFL, but later if sold FTF ILLEGALLY, then later again LEGALLY through an FFL might somehow be discovered due to the current seller NOT showing as the current owner of the gun.So just assume that any firearm you have bought that went thru a BGC/FFL or otherwise thru any gov system that had your name associated with it, wound up, or will wind up, in some gov DB somewhere.
It might - with the right DB query and data, it certainly could be.This is why I have often wondered if a private sale (in say Oregon) that takes place through an FFL, but later if sold FTF ILLEGALLY, then later again LEGALLY through an FFL might somehow be discovered due to the current seller NOT showing as the current owner of the gun.
The NSA records and analyzes almost all electronic data comms that it can acquire, which is almost everything (at least in the USA). Also, the gov has implemented relationship metadata analysis to know who has relationships with other persons and what kind of relationship they have. They gather info from financial transactions, phone/text/email, employment and income records, and so on.There is also no federal prohibition on states creating their own databases. But even where a state has a law prohibiting that state's government from creating a gun registry it is safe to assume one exists on a computer somewhere, as Heretic explained above. .gov can combine manufacturer and original FFL sale records with other records (emails and gun website messages) to trace many guns if they want to go to the effort of obtaining search warrants and subpoenas.
True but what about older guns that were bought in pre-computer BGC era, never sold or sold FTF when it was legal or in states where it still is?If (when) confiscation comes around, I think that data will just be used to go around and knock on doors for those people who did not turn in their guns,
Then those guns are relatively "off the books". But that may not help if the owner of record remembers who they sold it to - usually that is not the case, but it depends on the person.True but what about older guns that were bought in pre-computer BGC era, never sold or sold FTF when it was legal or in states where it still is?
I bought some guns several years ago (pre SB941) that had been purchased new in the '70s and I am only the 2nd owner.