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Gun ownership in regards to a child

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by darkminstrel, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    So I'm looking for any laws that apply to an underage child not only owning but possessing within the home a long arm. Assuming the weapon has a trigger lock or the bolt is disabled and the weapon also has a cable lock is it legal for the child to have that rifle in their room? Also assume no ammunition is stored with the weapon, and in fact is locked up in a safe or lockable ammo box.

    I was looking through the ORS about such things but didn't find a specific entry for them actually holding onto the weapon.
     
  2. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    Are we talking 16 year old or 6 year old. Need more information as to your thoughts. I am not aware of any specific storage requirements in Washington, don't know about Oregon. I do find it interesting that the American Rifleman had two stories in the last year of ten year olds protecting family members with household firearms from armed home invaders. If they had been stored by Brady rules they would have had no chance. As far as ownership I don't think children "own" anything. I wouldn't store firearms in a childs room. When my sons were young family friends were visiting and their son took a pellet rifle off the rack and shot his brother in the butt. My son had left it charged and thank goodness for heavy denim Levis. Man I caught **** and we had a serious talk after that. No blood no foul.
     
  3. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    11 year old boy. State of Oregon. It's a Rem 597, so it has the trigger lock tool plus it's got a cable lock through the chamber and mag well. The mags are locked in the basement ammo locker along with the ammo.

    We're currently embroiled in a custody suit of epic proportions with his bio-father and I'm trying to make certain every loop-hole is closed. I'm certain many of you are going to say 'take the gun out of his room!!'. Well, the damage is already done and his father has seen it in there. He's a sharp kid and doesn't screw with it unless I'm there or his mother is. Cool thing is that he had a sleep over and actually slapped one if his friend's hands away as they were reaching for it. The courts won't look on it too favourably I'm certain but I really just want some guidance as to which ORS I should be looking at.
     
  4. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    I don't know if there is any Oregon law on firearm storage and children but there is nothing for you to gain by leaving it in his room in your situation. Store it in your room and take whatever instructions a family court judge gives you about the firearm. If everything else is in your favor this probably won't hurt you if you follow the judges wishes. I've been to family court for custody cases and found them to be reasonable but tolerate no BS. Arguing with them seems to go nowhere. I doubt that he is going to agree the child owns the rifle.
     
  5. Wheeler44

    Wheeler44 SW Washington Member

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    I suggest enrolling the lad in a youth shooting program....The laws in WA change a little for actively training youths....It's possible that they change in Or as well
     
  6. Trick

    Trick St Helens Active Member

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    I would enroll him in Hunters Safety for the spring/summer courses. They fill up way in advance of the start dates.

    My oldest kid (17) leaves his weapons laying around in his room all the time after his hunting trips....I usually end up rounding them all up and dragging them back to the safe. We have a house full of kids and they have all been raised around hunting and fishing so there is really no mystery in weapons for them.

    My only fear has always been other peoples kids....heck, I even keep the pellet gun in the safe just because of other possible neighborhood children in the house.

    I'm 100% assured your child is responsible because you have taken the mystery out of guns with him, but what about everyone else's children?
     
  7. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    Thus the cable lock and integral trigger lock. I have no issue with taking the rifle out, the safe is not full...yet. It's just that I'm pretty certain his father is going to use 'HE'S GOT A GUN IN HIS ROOM!!' as a point during the actual custody hearing. I'd like to counter by saying ORS XXX.XX says 'blah' if 'blah' and 'blah'. Even if the weapon is no longer in his room, I'm going to have to defend the fact that it once was.
     
  8. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    You're not going to court without a lawyer, right? The advice you get here may be worse than no advice. I'm not saying anyone has been wrong here, just that you can't go to court without a lawyer.
     
  9. Izzy

    Izzy Oakridge Active Member

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    We have a 14 year old that I feel is safe with guns, she has spent a fair amount of time shooting them & learning gun safety. She owns a few guns, but they are all in the safe, I feel that is where they should be! If you are cool with the gun being in the kids room the locks are a MUST. I feel that baybe a gun case with a glass front & the locks you alredy have on it would be a good way to go. As far as the law goes I don't realy know. What I can tell you is that when my wife & I were Fighting for custody (Im a step Dad) I had told the courts that Her Dad keped a loaded shot gun in reach of the kids. The courts said they could do nothing about that. They said he should NOT keep the the gun Loaded in reach, but they could do nothing.
     
  10. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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  11. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Although I know of no laws against it, I don't know why you would have him keep a firearm in his room during a legal battle. Even if there is no law against it, the father may still use the fact that he has "access" to a firearm as an example of poor parenting. Even if it is really safe, and not bad parenting, there are plenty of judges/juries that aren't firearm fans, and would consider you allowing him to have a firearm in his room to be irresponsible parenting.

    If I were you, I would put it in the safe until the legal battle is over, just to be safe, and so that the father has no fuel to argue from that point. Also I would strongly suggest consulting your lawyer in this case, since they will know best what could be used against you in court.
     
  12. wayoutwest

    wayoutwest Polk County, Oregon Active Member

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    This right here really says it all.
     
  13. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    If it's in there now or not means nothing. It's the fact that the guy has been in my house and has seen it in his kid's room already. I can take it out the day before the court date(since that dirt bag is no longer allowed on my property) and be able to truthfully say that no, it is not in the kids room any longer. I was pointed by the OFF to the exact ORS about this;

    166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:

    (a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;
    (b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle; or
    (c) Possesses a firearm and:
    (A) Is under 18 years of age;
    (B)(i) While a minor, was found to be within the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for having committed an act which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony or a misdemeanor involving violence, as defined in ORS 166.470; and
    (ii) Was discharged from the jurisdiction of the juvenile court within four years prior to being charged under this section;
    (C) Has been convicted of a felony;
    (D) Was committed to the Oregon Health Authority under ORS 426.130;
    (E) Was found to be mentally ill and subject to an order under ORS 426.130 that the person be prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm as a result of that mental illness; or
    (F) Has been found guilty except for insanity under ORS 161.295 of a felony.
    (2) This section does not prohibit:
    (a) A minor, who is not otherwise prohibited under subsection (1)(c) of this section, from possessing a firearm:
    (A) Other than a handgun, if the firearm was transferred to the minor by the minor’s parent or guardian or by another person with the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian; or
    (B) Temporarily for hunting, target practice or any other lawful purpose;
    or
    (b) Any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides in or is temporarily sojourning within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by ORS 166.270 and subsection (1) of this section, from owning, possessing or keeping within the person’s place of residence or place of business any handgun, and no permit or license to purchase, own, possess or keep any such firearm at the person’s place of residence or place of business is required of any such citizen. As used in this subsection, “residence” includes a recreational vessel or recreational vehicle while used, for whatever period of time, as residential quarters.
    (3) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.
    (4)(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection, a handgun is readily accessible within the meaning of this section if the handgun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle.
    (b) If a vehicle has no storage location that is outside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, a handgun is not readily accessible within the meaning of this section if:
    (A) The handgun is stored in a closed and locked glove compartment, center console or other container; and
    (B) The key is not inserted into the lock, if the glove compartment, center console or other container unlocks with a key.
    (5) Unlawful possession of a firearm is a Class A misdemeanor. [Amended by 1979 c.779 §4; 1985 c.543 §3; 1989 c.839 §13; 1993 c.732 §1; 1993 c.735 §12; 1999 c.1040 §1; 2001 c.666 §§33,45; 2003 c.614 §8; 2009 c.499 §1; 2009 c.595 §112]

    That right there puts my mind to rest. I can take a copy of that to court, with our lawyer and feel confident. The guy's gonna lose, but he is going to try every underhanded thing he can, now there's one less weapon in his arsenal.

    Thanks to all who helped!
     
  14. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    You make sure your lawyer had a copy of the ors,BEFORE you go to court.
     
  15. Brandon44647

    Brandon44647 Portland Member

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    I have a 12 year old son w/ a Rem 597 HIS gun is in MY safe. He can see it any time he wants to, all he has to do is ask.....
     
  16. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

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    I am not aware of a specific law about this. I think the rule should be use common sense. If you are storing a loaded gun in a child's room a reasonable person would probably question your judgement. I would recommend the reasonable person test. Also what is the child's level or maturity and training in the safe handling of firearms. Generally speaking most minor could stand responsible adult supervision. Being a parent I am always being surprised by the new ways my children can find to do stupid things. Plan to avoid Murphy's law on this one and you won't have to bury a loved one or pay lawyers to keep you out of jail. An ouce of prevention.
     
  17. Wheeler44

    Wheeler44 SW Washington Member

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    Let me expand on the training issue.....There are several jr. smallbore shooting clubs in the region....

    Shooters training for the Olympics (even the jr. Olympics) will be viewed differently that shooters training to hunt.....

    The cost is affordable, the experience is priceless....

    I have noticed an increased level of maturity in the young shooters that I am involved with...
     
  18. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    I always had my guns in my closet when I was growing up, then when I got a safe, they went in my safe in MY closet.

    Had what was considered my guns since I was probably 8 years old. Never had issues.
     
  19. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    My sons rifle is locked up in my gun safe and its available under my supervision. I don't want him showing it to his friends when I am not home so the safe is always locked unless I am home.

    Children like to talk about their toys and they will tell their friends about any firearms they own. One of my sons friends Mother is a teacher and she asked to view the safe to insure that all guns were locked up before she would allow her son to stay overnight.

    They are great people so I had no problem showing her my locked safe, that at the time was bolted to the wall studs in the back of my walk in closet.