Other State Good Guy with a gun ends church shooting.

[Cerberus Group]

...another good reason to train...and train consistently.

 

[DLS]

As a furriner, I really do try my best to avoid being involved in some of the political discussion that inevitably runs through any gun forum that discusses RKBA, in particular with the efforts of one facet of your political spectrum that seems determined to destroy what we are pleased to call the American way of life.

However, I can't help, on this occasion, to notice that your Mr Biden appears to have stuck his head further up his own butt than I would have previously considered possible when he attacked the governor of Texas for positing a bill allowing church-goers to carry weapons when they go to worship.

'In September, [Mr] Biden spoke to members of the press to express his outrage over Texas Governor Greg Abbott signing a bill into law earlier this year that allowed lawful gun owners to carry firearms in places of worship.

"Dealing with firearms, it is irrational, with all due respect to the governor of Texas, irrational what they are doing," Biden told reporters on September 2. "On the very day you see a mass shooting … and we're talking about loosening access to have guns, to be able to take them into places of worship, it's just absolutely irrational. It's totally irrational."

His statements gained new relevance on Sunday after a gunman at West Freeway Church of Christ in northwest Texas was stopped by armed church-goers. At least four people, including one security guard, pulled weapons in response to the shooter.

The law had gone into effect on September 1, and likely prevented more death and carnage on Sunday. One person was injured and one worshipper was killed, as well as the gunman.

Texas state Senator Donna Campbell, co-sponsor of the bill, said in a statement, "We have learned many times over that there is no such thing as a gun-free zone. Those with evil intentions will violate the law and carry out their heinous acts no matter what," . "It makes no sense to disarm the good guys and leave law-abiding citizens defenseless where violent offenders break the law to do great harm."..."

I hope that I might be forgiven on this occasion, and would like to say that I'll never intrude again in this manner, except that I'm sure that the idiocy of this kind of thinking is not limited to Mr Biden and his cro- fellow politicians.

To that end, I will, of course, haul down this particular flag if required to do so by the management.

A free society requires honest, open and freely articulated discourse where, if the previously listed conditions apply, all points of view are valuable for consideration.

Even the point of view of a "furriner"!

 

[pdxparabellum]

Gunman kills two churchgoers but is stopped in 6 seconds by armed parishioners.

Carrying a gun in a church in Texas was only made legal by a new law effective September 1, 2019. The day the law was passed, Joe Biden called it "completely irrational"

**thank you to whom/whatever moved my post into this thread.

 

[etrain16]

I know most of the focus is on the man who fired the shot that stopped the shooting. But I wanted to also call out the other, I count at least 5-6, congregants that were also carrying, who drew their guns and moved toward the threat. It's nice to know there are sheepdogs, willing to move on a threat, to protect others.

And yes, the first man that drew his gun, died as a result, but he likely bought time and took attention away from folks sitting in the pews as targets. He may have been slow and clumsy on the draw, but his actions were nonetheless heroic, as he drew on an armed attacker.

At our last church, I was part of a volunteer security team, one that was not called out or identified to the general membership, only to us and a number of church leadership. It started when a female member was threatened for her life by her abusive, alcoholic ex-husband. She had a restraining order, and we all know what a waste of times those are. So, we met and agreed to carry (I already was) and position ourselves near each entrance/exit at every service. Thankfully he never showed, but it began a plan to keep armed folks in those places, just in case. That was maybe 10-12 years ago, and we're no longer at that church, but I believe it continues there, to this day.

 

[pdxparabellum]

I know most of the focus is on the man who fired the shot that stopped the shooting. But I wanted to also call out the other, I count at least 5-6, congregants that were also carrying, who drew their guns and moved toward the threat. It's nice to know there are sheepdogs, willing to move on a threat, to protect others.

Thank you for this. So very important and reflective for those of us who also carry in places of worship, or just carry anywhere.

 

[DB is Here]

And yes, the first man that drew his gun, died as a result, but he likely bought time and took attention away from folks sitting in the pews as targets. He may have been slow and clumsy on the draw, but his actions were nonetheless heroic, as he drew on an armed attacker.

Spot on!!!

 

[CountryGent]

The day the law was passed, Joe Biden called it "completely irrational"

Thus proving Mr. Biden's irrationality.

 

[bbbass]

I saw that I was wondering if if he had dreads or something like that .

A witness that the man sat next to said that he appeared to have a false beard and a wig... made her very nervous to the point the she and her husband had decided to move across the church after communion.

However, I can't help, on this occasion, to notice that your Mr Biden appears to have stuck his head further up his own butt than I would have previously considered possible when he attacked the governor of Texas for positing a bill allowing church-goers to carry weapons when they go to worship.

"Dealing with firearms, it is irrational, with all due respect to the governor of Texas, irrational what they are doing," Biden told reporters on September 2. "On the very day you see a mass shooting … and we're talking about loosening access to have guns, to be able to take them into places of worship, it's just absolutely irrational. It's totally irrational."

And yes, the first man that drew his gun, died as a result, but he likely bought time and took attention away from folks sitting in the pews as targets. He may have been slow and clumsy on the draw, but his actions were nonetheless heroic, as he drew on an armed attacker.

I agree that he was a hero and died trying to defend his fellow congregants. But earlier I was trying to make the point about the inadvisability of small-of-the-back carry. The other thing that John C. often comments on is the need for a stealth draw. The one thing that the gentleman's style of carry might have been good for. Yet he stood up and drew attention to himself... I don't think he did that in order to sacrifice himself. Point being, to practice drawing while seated. Perhaps nothing would have saved him. but we can take a few lessons from his actions.

 

[EHJ]

Sundays in Texas...

 

[etrain16]

I think there is another critical point to observe about this incident - one that should probably be shared with every anti that pushes back on carry laws.

Note carefully - for all the folks that drew guns, none of them just started indiscriminately firing in the church. We're told so often that if more folks carry, it's going to be mayhem - rounds fired everywhere, with lots of collateral damage. At this point, compared to the UPS shooting a few weeks back, this was evidence that folks can keep their cool, and keep their fingers off the triggers, once the threat is neutralized.

Good on these folks for not just randomly firing through all those people.

 

[CRBMoA]

I engage two types of shooting practice, depending on whether I am alone or not.

With guests, I work on static accuracy, hitting targets to move them for my friends, etc.

When I am alone, I imagine I look like Paul Blart.

 

[etrain16]

I agree that he was a hero and died trying to defend his fellow congregants. But earlier I was trying to make the point about the inadvisability of small-of-the-back carry. The other thing that John C. often comments on is the need for a stealth draw. The one thing that the gentleman's style of carry might have been good for. Yet he stood up and drew attention to himself... I don't think he did that in order to sacrifice himself. Point being, to practice drawing while seated. Perhaps nothing would have saved him. but we can take a few lessons from his actions.

He certainly made some mistakes, and it got him killed. My point was that he was actively working to engage the known threat. I don't think his intent was to draw attention away from the congregation, so much as to stop the shooter, but his actions did draw attention away, intentionally or not. The fact that he intended to engage was heroic in and of itself.

And absolutely, his difficulty drawing, and his resulting death, is a huge learning opportunity for all of us. And honestly, how many ever practice drawing from their carry position, while seated? I know it's something I need to work on, for sure.

 

[bbbass]

And absolutely, his difficulty drawing, and his resulting death, is a huge learning opportunity for all of us. And honestly, how many ever practice drawing from their carry position, while seated? I know it's something I need to work on, for sure.

It is very common in action shooting competition. Where we simulate real life situations in order to learn while having fun. It's not the equivalent of a course in SD shooting, but it is good for those of us that can't afford such courses... I would have no problem drawing while seated as a result of having done it many dozens of times in competition. That doesn't mean I would have survived in that man's situation, but maybe a better chance of stopping him before the second man was shot???

 

[DB is Here]

And absolutely, his difficulty drawing, and his resulting death, is a huge learning opportunity for all of us.

It certainly caused me to have a dry fire target acquisition session last night.

 

[Camelfilter]

He certainly made some mistakes, and it got him killed. My point was that he was actively working to engage the known threat. I don't think his intent was to draw attention away from the congregation, so much as to stop the shooter, but his actions did draw attention away, intentionally or not. The fact that he intended to engage was heroic in and of itself.

And absolutely, his difficulty drawing, and his resulting death, is a huge learning opportunity for all of us. And honestly, how many ever practice drawing from their carry position, while seated? I know it's something I need to work on, for sure.

Yah, super sad for the him & his family. A hero none the less.

Noted, and will be working on similar. Easy enough to ad into training.

Also am wondering if Time "magazine" will be doing an article on how armed citizens can, have & do stop evil doers.

Since they've already taken this stance:

'Good Guys With Guns' Can Rarely Stop Mass Shootings, and Texas and Ohio Show Why

Mass shootings in Dayton and El Paso show the NRA's push to relax gun laws hasn't stopped the death toll from gunmen.

time.com

 

[EHJ]

And honestly, how many ever practice drawing from their carry position, while seated? I know it's something I need to work on, for sure.

With a drawn shotgun pointed in their direction by a guy who already had intentions... Nearly 3 yards away.

These people were dead already. Everyone's actions helped to stop continued bloodshed. Nobody was in 'error' in their reactions. Guy wasn't killed because he made any mistakes. Nobody is Rambo Ready in all situations.
The mere shedding of light (video) on this situation is the best deterrent to come of all this (aside from a dead bad guy) - the more the public sees the importance of self defense - and its effectiveness - the more it would deter others from thinking this is a wise course of action.

 

[bbbass]

Julian Castro and Beta O'Rourke have their knives out already...

 

[Grumpa]

Read this, especially the guy's campaign slogan. Priceless!

Jack Wilson, Texas Church Shooting Hero: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Jack Wilson revealed that he shot and killed the gunman at the West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas. He is being declared a hero.

heavy.com

 

[Cerberus Group]

For those who carry in Church or the like...what possible shooting distances are you seeing?

Is what you carry capable of consistently making those shots?

 

[etrain16]

With a drawn shotgun pointed in their direction by a guy who already had intentions... Nearly 3 yards away.

These people were dead already. Everyone's actions helped to stop continued bloodshed. Nobody was in 'error' in their reactions. Guy wasn't killed because he made any mistakes. Nobody is Rambo Ready in all situations.
The mere shedding of light (video) on this situation is the best deterrent to come of all this (aside from a dead bad guy) - the more the public sees the importance of self defense - and its effectiveness - the more it would deter others from thinking this is a wise course of action.

I disagree. He didn't draw cleanly and quickly enough for such a close engagement. There is a clear time where, if he had been able to draw quickly, he may have survived, since the shooter paused a second or two before firing. It's not a swipe at the guy, just reality.

I've been through several handgun self-defense courses. Everyone makes mistakes, that's why we have to train. Professionals make mistakes too. I don't see an issue with calling out the fumbled draw. A bit more speed, a bit cleaner draw, and he may have been the one to stop the shooter. It's no slight against the man, but something we can all learn from.