Garand or Johnson?

[revjen45]

Make mine a BM-59, thank you.

 

[Orlando8]

Someone say BM59?
I had Shuffs build this one years ago before they were popular , before parts were cheap and easy to find. Took me awhile to gather them all for the build

 

[Medic!]

Someone say BM59?
I had Shuffs build this one years ago before they were popular , before parts were cheap and easy to find. Took me awhile to gather them all for the build
View attachment 710064

I remember talking to Shuff years ago when he was first offering his services on the CMP forum.
Nice fellow.

And Beautiful BM 59.

 

[Ownerus]

While the '41 Johnson is mechanically and hustorically interesting, I'd take the Garand. I admire the accomplishment of developing it during the depression and it does show a lot of innovation. The easily removed barrel is great for cleaning the barrel. But with the corrosive ammo of the day you'd still need to pull the bolt assembly which is where the "too many fiddly bits" of the Johnson starts to show up. Stripper clips are rather fragile items compared to the M1 clip so no big plus there IMO. Granted, being able to easily top off the magazine with loose rounds would be nice when not being resupplied by the US Army and no clip makes the M1 a single loader but there's that US Army supply thing at the time of picking the M1. The sights and trigger pull of the M1 are superior also.

And God forbid having to fight with the tent peg bayonet of the Johnson (or any bayonet for that matter, the Johnson just being on the worse end of bad choices).

I wouldn't feel nekkid with the '41 Johnson (I probably shouldn't use those terms together), the number of fiddly bits keeps it in 2nd place IMO.

 

[metrotps]

I got to shoot a real selective fire M14 at the Seattle Police range many many years ago. Now that was interesting for sure...

 

[Mikej]

Granted, being able to easily top off the magazine with loose rounds would be nice when not being resupplied by the US Army and no clip makes the M1 a single loader but there's that US Army supply thing at the time of picking the M1.

Are you aware of the SLED? M1 Garand S.L.E.D. Clip (Single Loading Enhancement Device)
Unless I'm misunderstanding terribly?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Guns are Childs play.


View attachment 709857View attachment 709858

Miniature fire control computer for a battleship?

 

[Ownerus]

Are you aware of the SLED?

Yes. Not necessary for single loading an M1. The absence of a clip in an M1 makes semi-auto fire no worky.

 

[Mikej]

Yes. Not necessary for single loading an M1. The absence of a clip in an M1 makes semi-auto fire no worky.

Okay, now I've got you're post in proper context. Sheesh....Derp. However, I don't care to single load having the ejector have to snap over the rim. It seems like something that could cause an issue down the line.

 

[Ownerus]

The ejector always has to snap over the rim on an M1. Every time. Single shot or semi-auto. It's not like, for instance, a Mauser where the rim slides under the extractor from underneath.

 

[Mikej]

The ejector always has to snap over the rim on an M1. Every time. Single shot or semi-auto. It's not like, for instance, a Mauser where the rim slides under the extractor from underneath.

Thanks. I didn't realize that, being a relative noob and all. I've heard of the, maybe overkill, chance of a slam fire due to the floating firing pin.

Sorry, no more off topic.

 

[Ownerus]

On an in-spec rifle, that sort of slam fire is internet myth in my opinion. The tail of the firing pin is stopped by a bridge in the receiver until the bolt is rotated into the locked position. By then it has no forward momentum. Not to say it's impossible with a worn or damaged parts. That sort of failure can happen in any gun. In any event, not slamming any parts home any harder than necessary is desirable.

 

[crossbow5]

On an in-spec rifle, that sort of slam fire is internet myth in my opinion. The tail of the firing pin is stopped by a bridge in the receiver until the bolt is rotated into the locked position. By then it has no forward momentum. Not to say it's impossible with a worn or damaged parts. That sort of failure can happen in any gun. In any event, not slamming any parts home any harder than necessary is desirable.

I had a slam fire in my .308 Garand. No fun. The tail of the firing pin had eventually peened from use and somehow stuck in the bolt. This was one of the woodless Danish rifles that the CMP sold several years ago. Needless to say I replace the firing pin and a few other parts.

 

[Medic!]

Miniature fire control computer for a battleship?

Na.
Just a mantle clock I took apart, cleaned and made a repair on.

 

[Orlando8]

Slam fires are no myth, while not common slam fires can and do happen. These type rifles have a floating firing pin

Slam Fire Article

 

[revjen45]

Unfortunately my BM-59 was stolen in a burglary.
Anybody know who sells receivers?

 

[Mikej]

Slam fires are no myth, while not common slam fires can and do happen. These type rifles have a floating firing pin

Slam Fire Article

Good read!

 

[metrotps]

I never had a slam fire in any of my rifles that I had mentioned before but did get a double fire out of a SVT that I had long ago, do to crud from the ammo that was available in the 1970's. It had severe corrosion on the case and when fired it came out of the chamber looking like a recoilless rifle round. The double fire did not damage the Russian. I have seen first hand a slam fire in a FN 49 that blew the mag down on the bench and split the stock. Damaged the receiver cover also.
But I loved my M1's and really enjoyed shooting them in matches and just plinking with them. Easy to see why Patton wrote to General Campbell of the War Department. "In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised"

 

[Ownerus]

That was an interesting article on slam fires. Unless I missed something the slam fires they reproduced were all primer issues. Mostly high primers. No firing pin needed, just a sufficient blow from the bolt face. I recall an article some years back, probably in American Rifleman, about a high primer causing unlocked firing with a 1917 Enfield (manual bolt action).
The free floating firing pin of the M1 is prevented from striking the primer by the firing pin tail contacting the receiver. As with any gun, worn, broken or out of spec parts can defeat a safety mechanism. Not the same thing as a design defect. For what it's worth, the AR also has a floating firing pin. Like the M1, it is prevented from striking the primer with any energy until the bolt is rotated into lockup. And, like the M1, it can leave a firing pin mark on the primer when chambering a round.

 

[Orlando8]

I never said todays slam fires was a rifle defect. High or soft primers the firing pin can contact the primer with enough force to fire. Even a stuck firing pin can cause this.
This is the reason they went from the round firing pin to the half round.
Billy Pyle's book "The Gas Trap Garand "shows rifle with serial number 42664 with a slam fire that was caused by a broke round firing pin.
The receiver tang was broken off and the operating rod was broke in two parts , the op rod catch was also broke in pieces