Does the M1 Garand have a good trigger?

[03A3Sporter]

So you've read the Albert Speer biography?

I have read a LOT about German Aircraft and Hitler had nothing to do with the JU87 the design was on the drawing board before Hitler came to power and as I said earlier it had been finalized before he declared himself the supreme leader of Germany . Ernst Udet however had a LOT to do with it and was responsible for the aircraft being adopted into service with the Luftwaffe when it had been cancelled by by the previous technical director of RLM Wolfram von Richthofen (the Red Baron's cousin) , Richthofen thought that a slow, cumbersome, diving Stuka would never survive the anti-aircraft guns toward which it was necessarily pointed—Udet happened the next day to be given Richthofen's job.

 

[titsonritz]

Welcome to NWFA where everything from ARs to Junkers are covered in a thread about Garand triggers.

 

[Spitpatch]

I have a "monumental wealth" of experience with an M1 Garand that amounts to a total of 4 days loading for and shooting one just last week.

My first Garand, a CMP War-Baby Winchester (January 1944).

Baseline for comparison when handloading was St. Louis Arsenal M2 Ball, 1943.

It did take 4 days, and first attempts were discouraging. In 4 days, I learned two things:

1. The trigger is terrible (but that can be fixed).

2. If you feed it right, the damned thing will shoot!

 

[CLT65]

I have several M1 Garands. I really like them, but I'm not the expert that some here are. I recently bought a couple more rack-grade M1s from the CMP. After some minor tinkering, cleaning, and stock fitting, they shoot great, better than expected for beat up rifles with worn barrels.

I was shooting a Turk Mauser and an 1895 Steyr recently, along with a couple M1s. After shooting the others, it was nice to shoot an M1. The sights and triggers are just so much better.

I broke out some quality ammo to see what kind of accuracy I could get out of the old M1 on sandbags. The first five-shot group (100yds) measured 1.5". That was a bit of a lucky group, because that was about the best I could ever do with iron sights, with a good rifle, twenty years ago when my eyes were better! The next group measured 2.5", still pretty good for an old M1 with a worn barrel.

 

[DunRanull]

Also, Hitler was adamant about overseeing all weapon development, and was prone to making new weapons function the same as he experienced in WWI in the trenches.

For example, he had a bolt action rifle in the trenches, so he didn't trust semi-auto rifles. He didn't believe retractable landing gear were reliable, hence the fixed landing gear on Stuka dive bomber. All attempts at making a fast, lightweight tank were met with contempt, and the armor, guns and engines were increased to make the less vulnerable.

There's more to the issue than Hitler's ww1 preferences... it also had to do with manufacturing capabilities and wartime exigencies. Germany found itself in a far larger war than it was prepared for... Had the war continued, the K98k would have been retired and production of the STG44 ramped up.
The M1, I like it a lot as a shooter, altho it's a bit heavy for me to lug around these days. The only bad thing I know I heard from a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge. He said it was "Damn COLD" that late December- so cold that some of the rifles froze up from the lube- a problem the Germans didnt have with their Mausers. I won't tell you what he told me they did to "unfreeze" them, as Im not sure I believe it myself.
EXCELLENT triggers, IME. Damn great rifle in ww2 terms, beaten perhaps by the STG44 (too) late in the war. I don't like the clip thing... without the clips you cannot load the rifle. {Thread drift warning} That was one reason I sold mine and bought an FN49, roughly the same design "age", but held up by the War and the invasion of Belgium. The FN49 functioned well in the Korean war and was also used in several of the Israeli-Arab wars. Some claim that it was actually a better rifle than the Garand. Mine holds 10 rounds of 7.92x57 Mauser en bloc, no clip needed. Since I like the 8mm I stocked up when the surplus east bloc stuff hit the market some years ago.
ANYWAY- Had the Germans managed to put the FN49 into production and actually used it, the outcomes of several battles might have been different. C'est la guerre...
The M1 is so highly thought of that there are places that will sell you new or substantially rebuilt Garands in .308 or .30-06..

 

[Flymph]

Pretty decent, but it's no krag nor ross...
I'm not picky about triggers, so I like them fine as they get the job done!

 

[JSJPDX]

The Garand has a great two stage trigger if it is adjusted properly. The key is to ensure that both ears on the hammer engage the sear squarely and evenly. If not, you'll get a trigger that feels creepy with inconsistent break. When you stone the hammer you don't lighten the trigger as much as you smooth it out which makes it feel like you've lightened it a bunch. I have tuned the triggers on all of my Garands as well as my son's and they all break like glass, just the way they are supposed to. The interesting thing is that with the right stone it doesn't take very much time at all to have an outstanding trigger.

 

[CLT65]

What most don't get when it comes to triggers is that smoothness in the pull and a clean break equates to a lighter felt pull are more important in many cases than a actually light weight.

True, and the opposite is equally true. I have a KelTek Sub2K that has the worst trigger pull I'll ever felt, seems to be about 30 lbs. Measured for weight, it's actually not that bad; it's just so spongy. It doesn't break like a glass rod, more like a rubber tube or something.

 

[MikeInOr]

When you find yourself staring down the barrel of an MG42 the Garand trigger is plenty good enough!

When I got my Garand 30 years ago it had a quite heavy trigger. When I had a Shillen heavy barrel installed on the Garand the smith also worked over the trigger and it is very nice now.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Standard milspec AR triggers are single stage, Garands and M14s have a two stage trigger...there is nothing similar about them.

I guess l don't have any milspec triggers then.

 

[03A3Sporter]

There's more to the issue than Hitler's ww1 preferences... it also had to do with manufacturing capabilities and wartime exigencies. Germany found itself in a far larger war than it was prepared for... Had the war continued, the K98k would have been retired and production of the STG44 ramped up.
The M1, I like it a lot as a shooter, altho it's a bit heavy for me to lug around these days. Damn great rifle in ww2 terms, beaten perhaps by the STG44 (too) late in the war. I don't like the clip thing... without the clips you cannot load the rifle. That was one reason I sold mine and bought an FN49, roughly the same design "age", but held up by the War and the invasion of Belgium. The FN49 functioned well in the Korean war and was also used in several of the Israeli-Arab wars.
Mine holds 10 rounds of 7.92x57 Mauser en bloc, no clip needed. Since I like the 8mm I stocked up when the surplus east bloc stuff hit the market some years ago.
ANYWAY- Had the Germans managed to put the FN49 into production and actually used it, the outcomes of several battles might have been different. C'est la guerre...

The Germans were actually working on replacing the K98K before WWII the G41 which entered service in 1941 was their first attempt , The G43 ( a competitor to the G41 ) was the actual intended replacement for the K98K when the G41 didn't work out . German weapons programs ran in parallel with other programs and many times one group of designers or a program knew nothing at all of the other work being done . Keep in mind work on both the G41 and G43 commenced before WWII started . The G43 and STG 44 were a case of too little to late and to be perfectly honest . Also a rifle didn't win or lose the war for Germany, they ran of out of everything including oil as Allied efforts to stop their war production and that includes bodies to toss in the meat grinder.


As for the M1 vs the FN49 , the FN49 is a fine gun but its not superior to the M1 they are contemporaries of each other. The stripper clip loading of the FN isn't faster , than the En Bloc loading of the M1 but it does allow topping off of the rifle .

The battle rifle by the time the end of WWII came around was an obsolescent concept. I didn't say obsolete but compared to STG , SKS and AK it most certainly was on the way to the retirement home .

 

[ron]

OK guys who wants to learn to shoot a Garand? I am talking about shooting standing, sitting and prone.
Learn to use a sling. Don't have a M1? No problem. DRRC will loan you a rifle, sell you M2 ball ammo
and loan you shooting matt and spotting scope. Great group of folks many new shooters participating.
Attend the Service Rifle Clinic, May 20 is the class and May 21 is the match. New shooters will have
coaches. I am planning on attending. You can sign up now for the match and class. This one is a
100 yard 'Reduced' match. July 15 and 16 is a 200 yard match with pit service. Aug. 19 and 20 is a
'Across the Coarse' 200-300-600 yards match.

Douglas Ridge Rifle Club - Service Rifle Program

https://www.ossa.org/uploads/2/5/3/2/25326702/2023_highpower_schedule_version_3.pdf

Learn to pull targets in the pits.

 

[huntpotter]

The Tubb hammer spring seemed to make my Garand trigger slightly crisper. It was an easy change out, without having to do any polishing or modifying of any sear or hammer hooks.

Tubb® M1 Garand & M1A CS Springs

The Tubb Precision Hammer Springs afford the shooter the opportunity to attain a better, more consistent trigger pull as well as speed up lock time of the M1 Garand. Now competitors and enthusiasts can improve trigger pull and speed up lock time on their

www.davidtubb.com

The trigger was not bad at all, to start. I just wanted to see if it could be improved a little. And it definitely made the trigger feel slightly lighter, with more of a crisp break.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Does the M1 have a good trigger....yes it does.

Something to consider here....
The M1 was designed as a military rifle..not a target or match rifle.
This is not to say that the M1 ain't capable of fine accuracy or that you can't tune it , tweak it or refine it into being a target or match rifle.
I am saying that the basic rifle was made to fill a role...a role which it filled well.
That role however was not as a target or match rifle...but as a battle rifle.

So it might be wise to keep that in mind when asking if something is good on the M1 rifle.
Andy

 

[Lazyfaire]

@Reno
So the M1 Rifle....

We of course used it in WWII and Korea...also it was used by National Guard units till the 1970's...
Most infamously at Kent State.

Also it was issued to .....
South Korea....
South Vietnam...
Brigade 2506 during the Bay of Pigs Operation...
Many NATO countries used it , till they developed their own battle rifle.

From personal experience....
The M1 was used by some PDF troops in Panama...it was kinda weird being shot at by M1's during our invasion of Panama.
After all the M1 is a "good guy" rifle....
Andy

I agree. But instead of looking at this subject and referring to the 'dregs to the bottom' I see it as the newer better (?) hardware rising to the battlefront. Was in a military school (bad boy!) in the late 60s. We used and trained with the M-14 as the M-14s moved to front line troops. And as the NG also received over time the newer rifles, that the M-1, M-1 carbines, & M-14s were spread out to other armies and armories. Natural order of things in inventory. But I do not believe that they were ever junk and given to troops.
Interesting thread. Not a military historian by any means but like to hear from those that are.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Question: Recently picked up a M1A Socom. sn 281744

Simple question is- Is there just the one serial number, or are there other parts that are matching the serial?

 

[huntpotter]

Question: Recently picked up a M1A Socom. sn 281744

Simple question is- Is there just the one serial number, or are there other parts that are matching the serial?

Just the receiver has the serial number.
Any other numbers stamped on parts are drawing numbers or lot numbers.

 

[solv3nt]

I have read a LOT about German Aircraft and Hitler had nothing to do with the JU87 the design was on the drawing board before Hitler came to power and as I said earlier it had been finalized before he declared himself the supreme leader of Germany . Ernst Udet however had a LOT to do with it and was responsible for the aircraft being adopted into service with the Luftwaffe when it had been cancelled by by the previous technical director of RLM Wolfram von Richthofen (the Red Baron's cousin) , Richthofen thought that a slow, cumbersome, diving Stuka would never survive the anti-aircraft guns toward which it was necessarily pointed—Udet happened the next day to be given Richthofen's job.

Both Hitler and the JU87 design started in 1933.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Both Hitler and the JU87 design started in 1933.

I don't think you understand the timeline and events that transpired at all. You are aware that when the Nazis first took power they were part of a coalition and weren't the dominant party which is why I said Hitler didn't take full control of the government and nation until 1935. So One last time Hitler had nothing to do with the JU87, its very well documented. While he did play a role in the adoption of equipment as time progressed even then the military and designers often did their own thing and concealed it from him. Good examples are the ME262 and the STG44 . The STG was developed at time when he said he didn't want more rifles , he wanted more sub machine guns . The STG was originally called the MP44 aka Machine Pistol , he only found out later a rifle had been designed and procured after there were requests from commanders for more.


Go back and re read your history on how things actually occurred , and no contrary to urban myth he had nothing to do with the VW Beetle either other than giving it a name .

 

[solv3nt]

Go back and re read your history on how things actually occurred , and no contrary to urban myth he had nothing to do with the VW Beetle either other than giving it a name .

You make a lot of assumptions there buddy. It's been a while since I've read the Speers memoirs. But this is something in my collection.