National Dems introduce ammo control bill

[Andy54Hawken]

Right now it is tough for me to buy ammo by the case so...

I buy ammo , a little bit at a time as the budget allows...
Even with shooting my existing stock on hand ...it builds up this way.
Stockpiling ammo is a good idea and can be done , even if on a tight budget.
Andy

 

[GWS]

Right in the El Paso guys original manifesto he speaks of soft targets with no security Being the number one choice . For a armed citizen to stop one of these guys isn't easy in a crowded place . They would have to be in the right place with a clear shot and a unoccupied back drop ect.

The biggest problem with that is the second, third etc Armed Citizen. I hear shooting and unholster--There's a guy with a gun! Of course, he may be armed citizen 2 who now sees me pointing a gun at him. I see whole lot of problems with armed citizens running to the rescue.

Right now it is tough for me to buy ammo by the case so...

I buy ammo , a little bit at a time as the budget allows...
Even with shooting my existing stock on hand ...it builds up this way.
Stockpiling ammo is a good idea and can be done , even if on a tight budget.
Andy

That's generally the way I do it. I usually buy a box or two of ammo and/or a magazine. I like supporting my LGS, especially in these trying times. A big plus is that the LGS sees me as a guy who spends money in his store and occasionally will show me something new or make me a deal.
Win-win

 

[Geardo]

Of course, he may be armed citizen 2 who now sees me pointing a gun at him. I see whole lot of problems with armed citizens running to the rescue.

Except we have never actually seen this happen to my knowledge.

And would you rather have 1 guy shot by accident with a pistol, or 20-30 more shot by a rifle.

 

[GWS]

Except we have never actually seen this happen to my knowledge.

And would you rather have 1 guy shot by accident with a pistol, or 20-30 more shot by a rifle.

And do you want to be guy who accidentally got shot? The guy who accidentally shot the wrong guy?

The soldier at the Walmart did the best thing by covering people as they escaped

 

[Geardo]

And do you want to be guy who accidentally got shot? The guy who accidentally shot the wrong guy?

The soldier at the Walmart did the best thing by covering people s they escaped

Most CCWs only carry a 9, maybe a .380. A few 45s.

Pistol bullets really are not that deadly, especially at extended ranges and non-vital areas. I keep a medical kit in my backpack.

I would rather get shot by a pistol accidently than let a guy keep rampaging.

This has also never happened.

Most mass shooters give up or kill themselves when confronted.

A guy in normal clothes with a dinky littke CCW hiding behind cover is going to look a lot different than the guy stalking through the halls in full body armor with a long gun.

 

[nammac]

Regarding armed citizen intervention in a mass shooting situation, I carry for the protection of myself and my loved ones, I'm not a sworn peace officer nor do I pretend to be one, period. If there were a call/opportunity to assist, that'd be a different story for a different situation.

Once my loved ones were safe and secure, I'd have most likely followed the soldiers response, covering those escaping. If the shooter engaged me, there'd be return fire, but I wouldn't have gone looking for him, that's what we have police for...

I'm glad this dirtbag survived, it's an opportunity to pick his brain before frying it...

 

[GWS]

Most CCWs only carry a 9, maybe a .380. A few 45s.

Pistol bullets really are not that deadly, especially at extended ranges and non-vital areas. I keep a medical kit in my backpack.Do you always have that backpack on you?

I would rather get shot by a pistol accidently than let a guy keep rampaging. You are a tougher man than I am (Not mocking you) but getting shot accidentally doesn't necessarily lead to the end of a rampage

This has also never happened. Mass shootings used never happen. The number of CCWs is rising steadily so I think it's safe to think that while CCW on CCW may not have happened yet, it is coming. How many cases of "Blue on Blue" shootings have occurred?

Most mass shooters give up or kill themselves when confronted. They often do, very true.

A guy in normal clothes with a dinky littke CCW hiding behind cover is going to look a lot different than the guy stalking through the halls in full body armor with a long gun. Again, true IF the shooter is wearing armor and carrying a rifle. The punk who shot up VA Tech did it with a Glock and a Walther. The loony who shot up the Long Island Railroad did it with a Ruger P-85 Luby's Cafeteria was shot up by a loser with a Glock and a Ruger pistols. These were all guys wearing street clothes and carrying pistols. They aren't always as obvious as the punks in Dayton or El Paso, who had no armor but had hearing protection and a rifle.

My replies in BOLD

I truly believe that armed citizens running to the shooter can make the situation worse for the Police as well as for themselves. I understand the very noble intention but police responses are getting faster and faster The Dayton worm was dropped within 30 seconds of starting shooting. Imagine running into that situation with a gun in hand.
Again, I believe the soldier did the smartest thing. He helped people to escape and was ready in case the maggot showed up. I hope that if, God forbid, I am in that situation I will have the courage and presence of mind that soldier has. Get people to safety and if the shooter appears, Please God, let my aim be true.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

As for being the Armed Citizen at a mass shooting...

What you do and how you do it...will depend on the situation...and every situation will be different.
Do the best you can , with what you have and know , in the time you have.

It can be dangerous to say :
If this happens I will respond in this manner....what ever that may be.

I say dangerous 'cause the bad guy ain't going to care about your plan , thoughts or ideas of the situation...he will not play by your rules.

A plan yes , sure always a good idea...
But be flexible ...alert to new dangers or advantages to you...do not get stuck in the plan...if life don't work like how you planned it.
Andy

 

[titsonritz]

Panic buys commence in 3 2 1.......

Cool I need to make some money.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Cool I need to make some money.

Same here but recently sold 6k 9mm cases for $100.... easily worth $600 in panic dollars...

 

[HighlandLofts]

It is almost time to start abolishing the communist party.
They have one agenda paid for by the liberal billionares like Sorres and Blumturd,
Disarm the peple and conqure them.

 

[Geardo]

My replies in BOLD

I truly believe that armed citizens running to the shooter can make the situation worse for the Police as well as for themselves. I understand the very noble intention but police responses are getting faster and faster The Dayton worm was dropped within 30 seconds of starting shooting. Imagine running into that situation with a gun in hand.
Again, I believe the soldier did the smartest thing. He helped people to escape and was ready in case the maggot showed up. I hope that if, God forbid, I am in that situation I will have the courage and presence of mind that soldier has. Get people to safety and if the shooter appears, Please God, let my aim be true.

Some good points.


Maybe a misunderstanding on my part. I wouldn't encourage CCWers to go hunt down an active shooter, but to respond if on the front line/ cornered, etc.

 

[The Heretic]

Except we have never actually seen this happen to my knowledge.

We have seen police shoot the good guy - probably more than once if I chose to search in depth, but at least once that I know of. With both police and the public now trained to fear anybody with a gun, the chances increase exponentially. It used to be that guns were a possible threat, now they are seen as a highly probable threat, so much so that LEOs are shooting first and asking questions later.

Almost like that is what somebody wants. If I were more prone to conspiracies I would think that this scenario is too well orchestrated to be happenchance. Probably not intentional, but certainly those in power will not let a tragedy go to waste, and may be setting up the environment such that these scenarios are increasingly likely, and then when they do happen, take advantage of them. As such, a populist demagogue that incites violent behavior in some of his followers, would be a useful tool in a powerful position - a tool for destruction from within.

 

[Geardo]

We have seen police shoot the good guy - probably more than once if I chose to search in depth, but at least once that I know of.

Yep. This is true. And a bigger risk IMO then being shot by a fellow CCWer. Only thing you can do is train to engage the threat quickly if needed. Then get cover and holster up, or if you see police toss the gun hands in air and scream you are the good guy. I dunno.

 

[scarlo]

Please note article below regarding chit chat on magazine ban on komo news....maintain a healthy supply of ammo and mags...

Latest mass shootings renew effort to ban high-capacity ammunition magazines

The mass shootings in El Paso, Dayton and Gilroy are fueling a renewed effort to ban high-capacity ammunition magazines capable of holding dozens of rounds. The new state House Speaker-Designate says the legislation is ready for top-priority consideration. A mass shooting survivor says the time...

komonews.com

 

[nwslopoke]

I agree in any active shooter situation there is a priority starting with the responsibility to your family to come home and support them. BUT if there is the possibility. It looks like as with most cowards, once they are confronted with resistance they kill themselves. The Gilroy shooter did that according to the last report I heard. The Texas shooter, (Walmart, not the church) wrote he was going to kill himself rather than being caught but then he remembered he is a coward. The church shooter killed himself when confronted.

Are there anyone one of these that did not kill themselves when confronted? I'm not saying you could count on them doing it, but traditionally they don't seem to have much fight in them. The last three that survives, privileged kids by any measure with self important big ideas.

 

[Elf]

Active shooter situations can be handled by armed citizens and there is specific training on how to do so, which not only covers the shooting aspect but also staying safe from other armed citizens, responding police, and the legalities. When you know strategies to handle these things beforehand it's not as much of a situation for theory or imagination about what would happen, but just putting things into practice. Responding police are a danger to you, but there are lots of things you can do to minimize that.

I don't need to try to outline it in text on the Internet but would recommend just taking the training yourself if you want to know more. Examples would be Firearms Academy of Seattle's "Active Shooter Interdiction" class, or Ayoob's MAG-40, as well as the potentially useful weapons retention and disarming classes.

All you really have to do is take a single look at the last five mass shooters to see that they are completely untrained, stick out like a sore thumb to anyone with situational awareness, and make no use of tactics whatsoever. I have confidence that these are situations that trained people can handle.

If the premise is that an armed citizen can't effectively stop a mass shooting, then I think we have no effective argument against the people proposing gun control as a solution to this.

 

[nwslopoke]

If the premise is that an armed citizen can't effectively stop a mass shooting, then I think we have no effective argument against the people proposing gun control as a solution to this.

By all means if you (any person) are not directly confronted with the shooter and want to run to the sound of gun fire, by all means. Keeping in mind death is a permanent state and your first duty is to your family. If you need to save them by taking on the threat then that is a reasonable risk. But particularly in the PNW, obtaining a firearm and training is relatively inexpensive and easy. More people fight against it than for it. These people do not deserved to be slaughtered of course, but the same people you are trying to save are blaming you for the situation. Right now they are trying to remove your ability to save them. Just a thought.

 

[cigars]

Coming at us on all fronts now. I think I was born in the wrong era.

One would tend to think that it's the era of patriots.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Active shooter situations can be handled by armed citizens and there is specific training on how to do so, which not only covers the shooting aspect but also staying safe from other armed citizens, responding police, and the legalities. When you know strategies to handle these things beforehand it's not as much of a situation for theory or imagination about what would happen, but just putting things into practice. Responding police are a danger to you, but there are lots of things you can do to minimize that.

I don't need to try to outline it in text on the Internet but would recommend just taking the training yourself if you want to know more. Examples would be Firearms Academy of Seattle's "Active Shooter Interdiction" class, or Ayoob's MAG-40, as well as the potentially useful weapons retention and disarming classes.

All you really have to do is take a single look at the last five mass shooters to see that they are completely untrained, stick out like a sore thumb to anyone with situational awareness, and make no use of tactics whatsoever. I have confidence that these are situations that trained people can handle.

If the premise is that an armed citizen can't effectively stop a mass shooting, then I think we have no effective argument against the people proposing gun control as a solution to this.

Many saw with horror when the CC guy got taken out by the partner in the LV Walmart shooting.
This is where your situational awareness comes into play, you must observe (look for others that are not cowering in fear) and keep an eye on them too before you commit to act. Time flies under duress along with decision making so some may not be able to intervene.
There are lessons to learn without spending hundreds or thousands on top tier SD courses.