Oregon Bill makes it illegal to question laws

[billdeserthills]

New bill says you cant question the legality of newlaws except in leftist Marion county.

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​ ​ ​ Senate Bill 348, Prozanski's omnibus anti-gun bill, is now scheduled for a "work session" on Monday at 1pm. Work sessions are where bills are amended and passed to the floor for a vote of the entire Senate. The Senate Judiciary Committee has a new amendment for the bill. This amendment is 69 pages but the most important element is on the last page. Under this amendment, it will be unlawful to challenge the clearly unconstitutional language of the bill anywhere but Marion County. "SECTION 23. Any action challenging the legality, including the constitutionality, of this 2023 Act must be commenced in the Circuit Court for Marion County. ​

So, it's just like this forum then, as you are not allowed to question here either...

 

[uberguy]

That's my point. If you already have the majority and the votes to pass your law, let the process work because you don't need to cheat. Though I think that this part of this law looks bad and should be removed, FWIW there is no guarantee that a challenge in Marion county would be a loss (or a win). There are some conservative judges there too.

Legislators may not dictate where or under what circumstances a suit can be brought. Period.
Except in dictatorships, then all bets are off.

 

[MichaelH]

Like I said, I agree. .
Even if I was in favor of the legislation (I'm not for a number of reasons) I can't agree with a venue restriction clause because it impedes a person's ability to engage in a legal process in a forum reasonably convenient to the challenger, provided that forum the forum the challenge is brought in holds the same jurisdictional power as the preferred forum in all other disputes. It's fine to say a challenge can't be brought in our State's relatively small number of municipal courts, or tax courts or before the LUBA, but the circuit court of Marion county has all the same powers as the circuit courts of say, Hood River County, Linn County or Hood River County. If the state wants to forum shop they should have the same venue restrictions as anyone else.

 

[shlo812]

So, it's just like this forum then, as you are not allowed to question here either...

This is a private forum that the owner gets to control though. That's much different than law that governs everyone.

 

[PiratePast40]

Legislators may not dictate where or under what circumstances a suit can be brought. Period.
Except in dictatorships, then all bets are off.

I've been puzzled by the reactions of legislators on this issue, and on the permit to exercise a right issue. Speaking to different legislators, none seem to think that a permit and a written test to exercise a fundamental right raises any red flags. Second is the jurisdictional restriction. Several legislators, past and present, don't seem to think this is a legal issue. Rare perhaps, but not illegal.

Just seems strange to me that legislators don't see either one as a problem.

 

[bcp]

Compare it to a permit to go to church, and some religions are excluded.

A 40 hour class and a test on religion is required to get the permit.

Bruce

 

[probasco]

Itching and moaning on an internet forum is useless. CALL AND WRITE THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND CAUSUS LEADERS.

I have been doing that for about 20 years and probably have gotten 2 replies out of 100 letters. Those are usually, Thank you Mr Probasco for your concern,,,,blah blah blah. Out of 10+/- in person testimonies only once did it go the way of the gun. I am not saying its a futile approach but sharing ideas (itching and moaning) and informing people on the internet also forms opinions which turn into ballots. That being said, we need more people to write both on and off the internet.

 

[probasco]

So file the lawsuit challenging the law in federal court in the federal district.

I think they will kick it back down to the lower courts and you have to file in Marion county and I think the amendment indicates if you do not live in Marion county, you have no standing. Its being changed as we speak but they are attempting to get it passed with a vote from the legislators.

 

[Librarian]

I have been doing that for about 20 years and probably have gotten 2 replies out of 100 letters. Those are usually, Thank you Mr Probasco for your concern,,,,blah blah blah. Out of 10+/- in person testimonies only once did it go the way of the gun. I am not saying its a futile approach but sharing ideas (itching and moaning) and informing people on the internet also forms opinions which turn into ballots. That being said, we need more people to write both on and off the internet.

Principally the staff merely tallies your position - start with 'I oppose HB2005 and I want Representative Foghorn to vote against it' and you'll have about as much influence as is possible for just us 'general public'. Tic, one in the 'no' column.

Used to be, legislators figured one communication represented ~10 voters, and the relative weight given was hand-written > typewritten > phone call > form letter supplied by lobbying group. I suspect that ranking no longer means much.

To actually have influence, have to be lobbying the legislator all the time, well before any bills are presented to him/her by party leadership. Being a campaign donor sometimes helps, and doing a lot of hosting and bundling and such does help. You know, like the unions do.

We hoi polloi might be able to have some influence in districts that were sort-of competitive last election - see https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Documents/results/november-general-2022.pdf

Some examples from 2022 -
State Senator, (narrow D victories)
3rd District, 10th, 15th maybe, 20th

State Rep, (narrow D victories)
7th District, 10th, 19th, 20th, 26th, 29th, 39th, 40th, 48th, 49th, 50th

Ignore for the moment that there are some narrow victories by Rs in that list, too; a few of those I note, in theory, could be flipped from D to R. And the Ds currently in office might be susceptible to some voter pressure now.

Remember Thomas Sowell -

No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.

 

[User 1234]

I think they will kick it back down to the lower courts and you have to file in Marion county and I think the amendment indicates if you do not live in Marion county, you have no standing. Its being changed as we speak but they are attempting to get it passed with a vote from the legislators.

There is no lower federal court than a federal district (trial) court. If there is jurisdiction for the federal trial court to hear the case under Article III of the U.S. Constitution then it gets heard (unless an abstention doctrine applies, which is rare). From there it gets appealed to the federal court of appeal.

Sometimes a federal court will "certify" a question of state law to the state supreme court. However, the question of whether a state law violates the federal 2A under the Bruen test is a federal question.

 

[DunRanull]

It's not an easy subject for me to grasp but I think were getting things mixed up. I said we were a "Representative Democracy" which describes how our Federation works politically. Majority doesn't truly rule here, but only in a sense that minority's have representatives intervene, I think. It feels like majority rules in Oregon specifically regarding gun rights when our representatives are so unbalanced we don't have enough on our side to affect a vote.
While -currently- a minority opinon like a judge in a conservative county can put a law on hold to test its constitutionality, it seems like if we pass a law that prohibits that then weve stepped over the tyranny boundary of majority rule.

" I said we were a "Representative Democracy" which describes how our Federation works politically"
Wrong... The United States is not now nor have we ever been a "democracy". We ARE a constitutional representative republic, big difference. "Democracy" was anathema to the intent and spirit of the Founders, who purposely gave us a republic "If you can keep it"...

 

[tyk77781]

It's Oregon, the people here will just be like "oh sure, want more of my rights? Here you go masters" Little by little, it's all incremental, it wont stop till you wake up and suddenly there is no difference between Communist China/Rusia and the new USA they are trying to make. First they have to disarm and that has been very easy thus far as long as the people continue to comply.

Yup and the Bolsheviks weren't Russian!! Go study who they were and when you look at who is behind gun control it'll make sense

 

[AimingIPA]

This state is almost as far gone as California or Washington. There are still good people especially in eastern OR

 

[coltemp]

This state is almost as far gone as California or Washington. There are still good people especially in eastern OR

Yep and its mostly been destroyed by the same people who destroyed CA and then fled the destruction they wrought.
Brought their same stupid voting figuring if we just try stupidity one more time we can get it right this time.
Classic definition of insanity.

 

[Diamondback]

I've been puzzled by the reactions of legislators on this issue, and on the permit to exercise a right issue. Speaking to different legislators, none seem to think that a permit and a written test to exercise a fundamental right raises any red flags. Second is the jurisdictional restriction. Several legislators, past and present, don't seem to think this is a legal issue. Rare perhaps, but not illegal.

Just seems strange to me that legislators don't see either one as a problem.

It's simple, they don't see a problem because THEY ARE the problem.

 

[SteelheadTed]

This state is almost as far gone as California or Washington. There are still good people especially in eastern OR

In some respects WA is worse than OR and other respects it is the opposite.

There are good people in every state.