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Cops and concealed carry

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Stick, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. Stick

    Stick Eugene Member

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    Yesterday was quite the interesting day for me and my girlfriend. I'll explain a little and then get to the question.
    My girlfriend bought a piece of property with two houses on it, one for herself and one for her dad. The cost of the property was 10k more than she qualified for herself so she went ahead and added her dad to the loan (big mistake)
    A little over a year ago he stared doing meth and everything has gone downhill since. She's finally decided to let the house go and we moved out last weekend. The house will go back to the bank.
    We still had stuff to get out of the house and yesterday I went over to get some and her dad had broken in and changed the locks. I called the cops they came and told him he couldn't do that. I got a load of stuff and took it to the new house.
    Me and my girlfriend then went back to get more stuff and he wasn't home and the door was locked so I beat it down with my sledge hammer which is completely legal because you can damage your own property.
    While we were inside her dad came home and called the cops and told them we broke into his house and that we both had guns, which we did and we both have carry licenses.
    6 cop cars showed up and we got the whole criminal treatment which I understand why they do it. I told the cops we both had carry permits. When they finally approached me to pat me down they asked if they could take my gun. I said yes but I'm wondering since we hadn't broken any laws and we where legally carrying could i have said no and would they have to let me keep it on me?
    They emptied them and put them in the car and waited around while we finished loading up our stuff.
    Kinda seems to me since we didn't do anything illegal that we could have kept our guns on us the entire time.
     
  2. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    You have to obey all orders given by the popo.

    If I was you I would of said I consent to NO searches and will not give you my gun unless ordered to do so, and then I will comply under duress.

    I would be ultra polite, professional, calm, and pleasant as possible.

    The police are going to do what they want and you are at there mercy, you should however be not afraid to assert your rights and privileges you have under the law.


    I have never been in a similar situation, so I am basically talking out of my bung hole, still I like to imagine this is how I would of handled your situation.
     
  3. OregonBuzz

    OregonBuzz Grants Pass Member

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    You're probably right as I have informed officers a couple of times that I was armed and permitted and they did not ask for my handgun. However, in both of those incidents I had called them because my home had been broken into. Since I was the only person on the premises other than the officers I assumed they did not view me as a potential threat. In your case, if your girlfriends father was still around they probably only wished to eliminate possibilities. I'm assuming that they returned your firearms when you left?
     
  4. HollisOR

    HollisOR Rural OR, South of Dallas Active Member

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    Cops can insure that they are safe. Just like you did not know who the cops where, except they where cops. Generally that means they are the good guys. They don't know who are for sure. I would rather error towards safety. If you want to blame anyone, blame the dad for giving false information. That really tainted the waters, so to speak. BTW the courts have always supported the right for cops to be safe and insure their safety. In so doing, they also insured your safety too. Until it is all over, no one really knows for sure how it will end.
     
  5. Stick

    Stick Eugene Member

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    Yes we got the guns back.
    I new they just wanted to protect themselves and where not familiar with the situation.
    I'm just wondering why they asked if they could take my handgun. The question would lead me to believe I could say no just as easy as I could say yes.
    Me and my girlfriend where both polite to them and once they figured out the situation they where nice about it.
     
  6. Stick

    Stick Eugene Member

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    They didn't seem very pleased about how her dad made the whole thing out on the phone, they did actually put him in cuffs for awhile. I'm not sure why other than the fact that he's a felon.
     
  7. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Sounds to me like a trip behind the woodshed would be appropriate for that meth-headed retard... (no offese meant to retards)
     
  8. glockguy

    glockguy Albany Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well at least you got your guns back
     
  9. Partsproduction

    Partsproduction Tillamook Oregon Active Member

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    Since approximately ten times as many innocent "civilians" are shot and killed by police as the other way around I reject the notion that a legally carrying citizen is dangerous to police, it would make more sense to take the guns away from the police! Given that is true at the very least police should not have the gall to disarm citizens. To say "For our safety and yours" is a kneejerk oxymoron. Check out the stats. Unless it can be proven that police shoot and kill fewer innocent civilians than the other way around I'm not for disarming citizens under any circumstances.
     
  10. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    :thumbup:
     
  11. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    I dont think I could agree more with everything you just said.
     
  12. baada

    baada Surprise, AZ Member

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    Partsproduction: Post a link to those stats. I'll be honest and say I don't believe you. That's a pretty ripe allegation.

    Stick: It depends on the circumstances and when they asked you to hand over your weapon as to whether they had the "right" to disarm you. If they had not established you were a legitimate resident of the property, then yes they could detain and disarm you without your permission. Its called a terry stop.

    If they had already determined or accepted the fact that you were not there illegally and were not conducting illegal activities, then it was a request just to make them feel better. Sometimes cops do things just to feel like they are exerting some control, but in this case, as an experienced LEO, I would have done the same. Look at the "totality of the circumstances": Dad's a meth-head, calling in a false allegation, obviously there's some beef there, why risk anything escalating?

    They put the old man in cuffs because making a false report is illegal. I'm honestly very surprised they didn't charge him. If you're interested in doing so, you could certainly talk to a lawyer about bringing a civil suit forward against him. I don't know what's going on with the title and deed of the house, but it might be a way for you and the GF to get back into the property if you can win it in a suit.
     
  13. the puma

    the puma Oregon City Active Member

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    Oh brother. Loosen the tin foil a bit and relax.

    Normally, I don't take a persons gun for "safety" unless there are potentially dangerous circumstances. Responding to a call of a burglary in progress where the possible suspects are armed falls into that category. Furthermore, once it's known that it's a family disturbance is even more of a factor, since having been to hundreds of 'family disturbances' I know that people do the strangest things when hopped up on emotion.

    Furthermore, having a CHL in Oregon doesn't mean you're a "good guy" or have good intentions. It means you passed a certain background check or haven't been caught yet. I personally know of outlaw motorcycle gang members and street gang members that have Oregon CHLs, so forget the notion that having a CHL means you're above reproach. Generally, though, CHL people are fine upstanding citizens, but not always.

    It sounds like once things were ironed out, you were fine. Staying calm and following lawful orders usually guarantee things will work out in your favor, as they did this time.

    Some people hate the police, as evidence in this thread. I won't even try to change your mind, because it's just not possible. Fine, keep hating. It's your right and that's that. When we take a look at deadly force incidents involving our local police, you'll see common threads, and none of them involve people following orders and acting calmly. If you have issues with a police incident, the proper time and place to air your grievances is not during the incident.
     
  14. RichardWi11iams

    RichardWi11iams Vancouver, WA New Member

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    American Guardian on the outdoor channel just did a whole episode on proper procedure when dealing with the police while carrying. Obviously didn't list the specific RCW's but did give a good over view. They do have a right to take and hold your firearm if they deem it necessary for their safety.
     
  15. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    You know what the LEO's mantra is:
    "Ask them, tell them, make them."
    That gun was going to end up in his possession one way or the other. Like you, I would've chosen to do it the easy way.
     
  16. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Oregon Well-Known Member

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    To run it's serial number. If it comes up as stolen, regardless of whether or not you know about it (and whether you are the victim or suspect in the case), you are in big trouble.
     
  17. 22many

    22many PNW Well-Known Member

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    Stick, it depends on the cop. 70 percent of the cops I have came in contact with are complete aholes. The last one being a very similar situation as yours. As I have learned over the years, you can't trust or rely on law enforcement to protect you or your rights.

    The puma, do you have any actual facts or stats to back up your statement about the integrity of Oregon chl holders? It sounds to me as your just rambling about false info.
     
  18. the puma

    the puma Oregon City Active Member

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    What part sounds like I'm lying? The part where I said I personally know about gang members that hold CHLs? What about that sounds like rambling?

    The most recent case was a full patch wearing Outsider. I ran his plate and saw he had a valid CHL, so I called the CHL coordinator for Multnomah County. She told me specifically that affiliation with a motorcycle gang wasn't a disqualifying factor in granting CHLs in Multnomah County. I dealt with a black gangster a number of years ago (6-8?) and he had a valid CHL. He was fairly new to the gang (I can't remember if it was the Bloods or the Crips, or what subset it was..sorry) and he still had his CHL. I'm pretty confident he lost it at some point, but my personal experience backs up my opinion. How about the CHL holding road rager from Scappoose who was pointing his handgun at drivers he was mad at...not once, but twice on Hwy 30. These are the ones we know about, but the victims were completely different and didn't know about each other.

    22many, if you re-read my post (I encourage you to do so), you'll see that I state that most CHL holders are average, upstanding citizens. I also said that having a CHL doesn't guarantee someone isn't a bad person. The odds are they are, but that's not something I'm going to stake my life on. In my previous post, I did mention I had personal knowledge about such instances, but I guess that means I'm "rambling about false info." If 70% of the cops you deal with are "aholes," I think you should look in the mirror. Like most people, I have had a few interactions with the police (not on the job....but being pulled over for speeding, while at college and drinking as a minor, etc...), and looking back, most of the cops I dealt with were not aholes. I wasn't happy being the focus of police action, but I brought it on myself. There are cops that are aholes, and I work with some. I have to cover them on calls, and I cringe when it happens, but it's the minority.
     
  19. stompah

    stompah Renton, WA New Member

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    No chance u had a firearm left in the house when he changed the locks? Might be an easy way to get rid of him for a bit.
     
  20. 22many

    22many PNW Well-Known Member

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    From reading your posts it sounds to me like your stereotyping. Just because someone is affiliated with some shady people doesn't mean they are all bad people. I personally know and see a couple times a week some of my old friends that were recently released from prison. They are friends but they are also doing life on the installment plan as I like to call it. Me? I have no record. Not a single day or night in jail. Does that make me a threat when le asks if I have any affiliation with criminals?

    As far as looking in the mirror, reread the second and third sentence in the above paragraph.

    As Far as your personal experience, that's your experience. I tend not to believe things I read on the Internet without actual facts or stats.