Clark Co deputy shoots & kills off-duty Vancouver police officer

[66cobra]

What a FUBAR!! Have to agree the off duty LEO sure sounds like he really screwed up all the way around. I feel so bad for all the families involved with this mess.

Really screwed up really bad guy shows up at your house what are you gonna do this posting is a joke we weren't there but you all have expert opinions the off duty officer did nothing wrong was defending his home and family. Hope none of you experts ever deal with something like this

 

[American123]

Sadly soft armor doesn't stop edged weapons. And if he was shot with a rifle his vest would have only done so much. Although being in uniform he would have had more tools at his disposal.

The uniform was to stop from being shot from his fellow LEO.

 

[Member 53328]

The uniform was to stop from being shot from his fellow LEO.

Still not a guarantee.

 

[American123]

Still not a guarantee.

True…. But the number of police shot due to mistaken identity while is police uniform by fellow LEO is rather small.

 

[Member 53328]

So if he's not in uniform then he shouldn't intervene? Everything has a risk/reward. Anyone who carries everyday runs this risk the minute they step out the door. I'm sad he was shot but I give him props for intervening.

 

[Alexx1401]

Really screwed up really bad guy shows up at your house what are you gonna do this posting is a joke we weren't there but you all have expert opinions the off duty officer did nothing wrong was defending his home and family. Hope none of you experts ever deal with something like this

Well bad guy shows up, police (who are on duty) are on the way. So I guess the "smart" thing to do is leave your home, go outside, no way for police who you know are coming to identify you, then let the scum stab you and get control of the gun you left the house with? Hey to each his own, if this is how you train to handle this fine by me. Just hope you are not living next to me when you give the scum your gun.
Me? I would stay in the house, wait for the on duty police to show up. I guess this is why I am not an "expert" at this

 

[RobMa]

Really screwed up really bad guy shows up at your house what are you gonna do this posting is a joke we weren't there but you all have expert opinions the off duty officer did nothing wrong was defending his home and family. Hope none of you experts ever deal with something like this

Heeeeee's back...

 

[Jay Walk]

I like the comment where "Leo should have put on something to show he was Police"
That's comedy.

A couple of good comments on here were

Don't know, wasn't there
Things happen fast
You don't know what you would do until it happens or how it will play out.

Not sure if it was mentioned but that house is at the end of a private road that is abnormally long,
You can throw a stone to a State highway but to get back to Leo's house is quite the trek.

Stay safe everyone

 

[Caveman Jim]

"Cowering" is a verb that has nothing to do with making the choice to approach the situation more advantageously. Police are generally trained to deal with violent criminals in at least pairs if not more people, solo is never advised if it can be avoided. I really think the guy is dead because the criminal got the best of him and then by unfortunate circumstances, he was shot by the responding officer. It all started with losing to the criminal and it appears that however that scenario played out was poorly planned/executed. I'm suggesting that a plan that is more likely to win is better than a plan that is more likely to lose.

You say tomato I say tomoto, maybe not the best word but all I'm hearing from many here is to stay in your home or you'll get hurt. It fits.

 

[bionic knees]

Heeeeee's back...

another one on the ignore list.

 

[American123]

You say tomato I say tomoto, maybe not the best word but all I'm hearing from many here is to stay in your home or you'll get hurt. It fits.

Rather a simplistic interpretation considering people advocating for staying in the house are advocating for retaining tactical advantages rather than give them up completely unnecessary but I guess you could say "tomato towmawtow"

 

[bbbass]

You say tomato I say tomoto, maybe not the best word but all I'm hearing from many here is to stay in your home or you'll get hurt. It fits.

As a non-sworn, IMO it is my job to protect the wife.

1. Going outside to investigate/confront opens the situation to uncontrolled possibilities.
A. I watch a lot of Advanced Self Protection on YT... John's constant mantra is for self defenders to NEVER leave the building; never pursue BGs outside.
2. Outside, the self defender does not know how the BG is armed.
3. Outside, the self defender does not know how many buddies the BG brought along to assist his BG doings.
4. I'm not cowering inside, I'm posting up while in communication with Law Enforcement. They may not be riding to the rescue in under 7 min, but:
5. The house is a defensible position with wall, windows and doors, any breach of those is legal justification for the use of deadly force AFAIK.

Not sure how this plays out for off-duty LEO. But I do admire his TRYING to help. No matter what mistakes he made, he's a HERO. RIP.

 

[Darknight]

Sahota was inside with his family and guns and the police had been notified. There was no reason to go outside and confront the felonious door knocker.
The elephant in the room is the fact that the responding officers should have had a description of the suspect from the armed robbery he had committed less than an hour before. I doubt he would have changed clothes on the run, it's not the movies.
Even if the responding officers gave commands to stop using a bull horn, Sahota wouldn't have heard them. He was injured, full of adrenaline and more fixated on saving his family at that point.
The officers, knowing there was an off duty leo on scene, should have taken an little more time to identify who was who before shooting the first person they saw with a gun.
Homeowners have the right to carry firearms anywhere they want on thier property without being shot.
The responding officers will be cleared of criminal wrong doing, but the department will pay out thier backside in the Civil lawsuit that's coming.

 

[bbbass]

Homeowners have the right to carry firearms anywhere they want on thier property without being shot.

I remember when I took Driver's Education some 55yrs ago and my instructor was discussing Right of Way at a stop sign. I mentioned I should just go ahead and go since I had the Right of Way... the instructor responded that I could insist on having my Right of Way, but that would NOT keep that oncoming Kenworth grill out of my door frame.

Some things are a LOT easier to say than to employ.

Be smart, stay safe.

 

[revjen45]

1) "The responding officers will be cleared of criminal wrong doing, but the department will pay out thier backside in the Civil lawsuit that's coming."
No, We the People will pay out the a$$.

2) "5. The house is a defensible position with wall, windows and doors, any breach of those is legal justification for the use of deadly force AFAIK."
Depending on whether or not the DA's campaign was financed by Soros.

 

[WillametteWill]

The elephant in the room is the fact that the responding officers should have had a description of the suspect from the armed robbery he had committed less than an hour before. I doubt he would have changed clothes on the run, it's not the movies.

Not the movies but real life in real time. The info officers have to work with from witnesses are the giant telephone game through dispatch is typically marginal at best. And crooks may not change clothes, but they do frequently ditch outer clothing to change appearance. Just because someone gave info to dispatch does not mean it was relayed to the officer (or that the info is correct). Even if some information was broadcast it does not mean it was heard by the officer who, by nature of the job at this point, is required to multitask (and I know, multitasking is not a real thing, technically it is switch tasking...I teach the difference). During these times human capabilities for even well trained, well-functioning humans are stretched beyond their limits in some cases. This causes transmissions to no be heard, things that you would think should have been seen to not be seen, etc.

Many of us have commented on this before with Andy usually providing the most eloquent dialogs in this area based on his experience. It's about risk exposure and during events like this, there is more than an ample amount of exposure to go around. Events like this happen every night hundreds of times across the country. In nearly every case the bad guy gets arrested or gets away and we never hear about it. In a small percentage someone gets shot, bad guy, officer, third party. It's tragic, but risk as it is, it's going to happen sometimes. Guns, criminal activity and humans are involved.

I noted a few pages back that I'm not going to Monday morning QB. Still not. I'll leave that the Chris Collingsworth and Dion Sanders.

 

[bkroger86]

Story was updated with more details: https://www.oregonlive.com/clark-co...y-deputy-died-of-multiple-gunshot-wounds.html

Medical examiner lists cause of death of the off-duty officer as "multiple gunshot wounds to the torso". And the officer accused of shooting him apparently opened fire "seconds after arriving".

 

[MarshalChillN]

Responding officer got some splain'n to do !!!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

This article describes a previous shooting by the deputy where he reportedly shot the perp after yelling get on the ground, perp did not comply, then perp pointed gun at the deputy.

By itself that past report doesn't mean much I think. Just another data point (assuming the info is accurate). He could have been trigger happy or he could have followed the book 100% on the off-duty LEO shooting, we don't know. As said by another poster above, if commands were issued the off-duty LEO may not have heard them after being stabbed in the torso 3 times during a life and death struggle.

Clark County deputy who fatally shot off-duty Vancouver officer identified

In the shooting three days ago, Deputy Jonathan Feller fired multiple times within seconds of arriving at Officer Donald Sahota’s secluded house, striking Sahota in the torso as the off-duty police officer ran with his gun in hand, chasing after a man who had just stabbed him, authorities have said.

www.oregonlive.com

My biggest questions at the moment are was deputy aware there was an armed off-duty LEO there? And did he give commands prior to shooting?

Tbh I don't fault the homeowner. He didn't pull the trigger that killed an innocent. He was acting to protect public safety. Good intentions by someone trying to do the right thing, ending in bad results unfortunately. I feel bad for the family.

 

[Spitpatch]

Not the movies but real life in real time. The info officers have to work with from witnesses are the giant telephone game through dispatch is typically marginal at best. And crooks may not change clothes, but they do frequently ditch outer clothing to change appearance. Just because someone gave info to dispatch does not mean it was relayed to the officer (or that the info is correct). Even if some information was broadcast it does not mean it was heard by the officer who, by nature of the job at this point, is required to multitask (and I know, multitasking is not a real thing, technically it is switch tasking...I teach the difference). During these times human capabilities for even well trained, well-functioning humans are stretched beyond their limits in some cases. This causes transmissions to no be heard, things that you would think should have been seen to not be seen, etc.

Many of us have commented on this before with Andy usually providing the most eloquent dialogs in this area based on his experience. It's about risk exposure and during events like this, there is more than an ample amount of exposure to go around. Events like this happen every night hundreds of times across the country. In nearly every case the bad guy gets arrested or gets away and we never hear about it. In a small percentage someone gets shot, bad guy, officer, third party. It's tragic, but risk as it is, it's going to happen sometimes. Guns, criminal activity and humans are involved.

I noted a few pages back that I'm not going to Monday morning QB. Still not. I'll leave that the Chris Collingsworth and Dion Sanders.

Well said. Particularly the truth about multitasking , switch tasking, or my preference, "multi-neglecting", and especially that you seem to know that such is going on at high levels on BOTH sides of that radio when the heat is on.