Clark Co deputy shoots & kills off-duty Vancouver police officer

[ilikegunspdx]

Keep in mind that the homeowner was a law enforcement officer. He was not just protecting his property, but engaging a potentially dangerous suspect who could have left the scene and injured/killed other innocent victims in the neighborhood. Whatever "mistakes" he made in the confrontation, he was doing his duty to serve and protect and paid the ultimate price. Thoughts and prayers to his family, I will let the investigation sort out the details involving the sheriff's deputies response and what steps follow. I just wish the politicians would quit haranguing the police and emboldening the criminals.

Agree. Officer's duty to detain is completely different than for a regular citizen whose top priority may be to avoid/escape, observe and report, or stop an attack (if an attack is occurring). For non LEOs, detaining an armed robbery suspect is probably not high on the list for engagement I would guess. It's a real tragedy as it sounds like the officer was likely trying to assist the sheriff's deputy.

 

[Jay Walk]

The homeowner was a LEO, they are not allowed to just "Put people down" anymore.
Likely wanted to avoid prosecution and keep his job.

Washington's new laws tie the hands of law enforcement officers

These laws will cause every law enforcement and corrections agency and all its officers to reconsider the way they go about their jobs.

 

[RVTECH]

During my 'incident' a few years ago I called 911 after the guy left my house but informed them I would be on my front deck, armed, and waiting.

They informed me to stay there and wait for the officers to arrive and they would meet me on my deck and to please clear my weapon upon their arrival.

 

[The Heretic]

These type of events are likely going to discourage some people from attempting to defend their property with a firearm. Not only do they have to worry about getting injured /killed by perps but now they have to worry about being shot by responding LEOs. And if it can happen to a seasoned off duty LEO, it can happen to anybody. I suspect it will happen more often now that LEOs are getting killed almost daily. Their trigger fingers are probably a lot more sensitive these days and who can blame them.

This has been the case for a long time - it isn't something new.

LEOs kill more innocent civilians than armed civilians do - by 2-3X IIRC - by shooting the wrong person. And that stat was decades ago. I can't find it now, but I believe it was in one of the studies by Lott or Kleck?

I would not be surprised if it has gotten worse; LEOs are now trained to fear the appearance of guns a lot more than they used to. It has turned into a shoot first and ask questions later. If civilians adopted that policy we would generally be crucified in court.

Granted, LEOs encounter many more violent criminals than most civilians, that is the nature of their job - and criminals have gotten much more violent.

 

[Forester]

First and foremost, I want to express my condolences to all involved in this horrendous event.
The LEO responding and shooting the wrong person should be held accountable for gross negligence.
The homeowner/off duty LEO should have shot the perp and put his weapon away before the approaching LE arrived.
If someone tries to break into my home, they will be put down way before the police arrive and my weapon will be holstered/ put away. !!!
Just my thoughts...

That's assuming that everything goes as planned.
But if everything went as planned, you wouldn't have an intruder.

 

[bcp]

Press release:

https://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2022-01/3059/151939/22-260_PR1_01302022.pdf

Bruce

 

[AlwaysOnTheGo]

Press release:

https://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2022-01/3059/151939/22-260_PR1_01302022.pdf

That's awful.

If dispatch had relayed to the responding deputies that the suspect was a "23-24YOA white male" and "husband was an armed off-duty Vancouver Police Officer and had exited their residence onto the driveway in front of their home in an attempt to detain the suspect for responding officers", the Sheriff's deputy that fired has some serious explaining to do.

 

[arakboss]

That's awful.

If dispatch had relayed to the responding deputies that the suspect was a "23-24YOA white male" and "husband was an armed off-duty Vancouver Police Officer and had exited their residence onto the driveway in front of their home in an attempt to detain the suspect for responding officers", the Sheriff's deputy that fired has some serious explaining to do.

If not the dispatch operator has some serious splaining to do.

 

[AlwaysOnTheGo]

More details here: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/20...ancouver-police-officer-died-at-his-home.html

 

[RobMa]

The biggest take away seems to be that the deceased should have stayed inside his home instead of trying to confront the suspect and he would still be alive. The second biggest take away is that when you go outside to confront the suspect, don't rely on the suspect complying with your attempt to detain him just because you have a gun. The third takeaway seems to be that if you are attempting to detain someone and you are in possession of the firearm - distance is your friend, the deceased was stabbed multiple times and lost possession of the firearm at the hands of the suspect - distance was obviously not kept.

Yes, we should all just hide from the vermin and be terrified little sheep and let big brother save us...
That seems to be working out rather well wouldn't you say?

 

[GrayGoose]

Yes, we should all just hide from the vermin and be terrified little UNARMED sheep and let big brother save us...

THAT is what they want of us.

 

[RobMa]

If not the dispatch operator has some serious splaining to do.

 

[MarshalChillN]

THAT is what they want of us.

THAT ain't happ'n !

 

[American123]

Yes, we should all just hide from the vermin and be terrified little sheep and let big brother save us...
That seems to be working out rather well wouldn't you say?

There are battles worth fighting, this was not one where exiting his home to do it was the best choice. I'm sure he (if he could) and his wife would happily redo that night and make different choices…

 

[RobMa]

There are battles worth fighting, this was not one where exiting his home to do it was the best choice. I'm sure he (if he could) and his wife would happily redo that night and make different choices…

Perhaps, but if it were he that bested the vermin methinks we would be having a different discussion......

 

[American123]

Perhaps, but if it were he that bested the vermin methinks we would be having a different discussion......

It was a lose lose exiting the house seeking compliance, there was no benefit to be gained going solo. He left the safest place to be and gave up all his advantages to try and get the guy to surrender, the guy didn't surrender, he jumped the off duty and stabbed him multiple times, overwhelming him seemingly completely. Then out of mistaken identity, a responding officer shot the off duty, fatally.

 

[Alexx1401]

Keep in mind that the homeowner was a law enforcement officer. He was not just protecting his property, but engaging a potentially dangerous suspect who could have left the scene and injured/killed other innocent victims in the neighborhood. Whatever "mistakes" he made in the confrontation, he was doing his duty to serve and protect and paid the ultimate price. Thoughts and prayers to his family, I will let the investigation sort out the details involving the sheriff's deputies response and what steps follow. I just wish the politicians would quit haranguing the police and emboldening the criminals.

As an LEO I would expect him to be more "prepared" than the average Joe and it sure sounds like he was not. For one some kind of ID. If he wanted to go outside and be on duty he should have something quick to toss on. Vest of some sort with clear marking may well have been able to save his life. Second he let a scum with a knife take his weapon from him. While its tremendously sad he died over tragic errors he is now not the only victim here. The other LEO who shot him now has to live with this the rest of his life too. LEO or not, you have to THINK before you run outside with a gun in hand. If you are going to do this at least try to be prepared. Maybe others who would do the same thing he did will stop for a second and think before making the same mistakes. People who take off half cocked and run head first into trouble without thinking often make for a few victims.

 

[revjen45]

So then one must choose between armed self defense or calling the cops, who may or may not be of any help, depending on ROE for the area.
Hmmm-
Response time for the police => 7 min. for the Emerald Cesspool PD, maybe longer out here in semi-rural Snohomish County.
Response time for 9mm JHP ~ 1200fps. and no cr@p about having to call a social worker.

Call the cops after it's all over with but the shouting?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Any LEOs in the house? I would like to hear a LEOs take on the decision to come out of the house and detain the perp. Just a guess but it might be almost an automatic response for him to do so. But I'm not a LEO so I'm totally guessing on that. I know that we view things from our own lens so sometimes it hard to imagine viewing it from someone else's like this officer who has been in law enforcement a long time. I know one thing, it took courage to do it that's for sure. And these guys display that kind of courage most every day I think.

 

[RobMa]

I'm ex LEO and I would not of come out straight on; I would've maneuvered around the individual In a way that he did not see me so as to get the upper hand and keep my sidearm trained on them at all times, if he did not adhere to commands and came closer to me with a weapon in a violent way I would've shot him.