Other State California's Mag Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

[tkdguy]

Stay filed. Can't express my hatred for CA here in words without getting banned.

Duncan v. Becerra | Michel & Associates, P.C.

Feels the same for the leftist in this state as well.

 

[Diamondback]

Feels the same for the leftist in this state as well.

Make it a sweep across the entire Left Coast.

 

[awshoot]

Stay filed. Can't express my hatred for CA here in words without getting banned.

Duncan v. Becerra | Michel & Associates, P.C.

From the brief in support of the stay, it seems the state has agreed that people are now able to buy standard mags -- there had been some discussion on whether or not that was the case:

Second, absent a stay, the State will be irreparably injured as a matter of law. LCMs have been illegal to manufacture, import, keep or offer for sale, give, or lend since 2000; and as long as the Court's decision remains in effect, individuals who have been prevented from acquiring LCMs for nearly twenty years will be able to lawfully acquire them.

LOL -- the unintended consequences of overreach.

 

[tkdguy]

Cali's position that a smaller capacity mag gave people a greater opportunity to escape did not hold water with the Cali Fed Judge.

 

[awshoot]

So if mags are arms in the same way firearms are arms, in the same way ammo is arms, then would this open up the gate so to speak for magazine background checks just as ammo background checks have already been proposed just as firearm background checks have existed for years?

Possibly, but if they aren't arms, then they can be banned. You have to take the good with the bad.

 

[awshoot]

Cali's position that a smaller capacity mag gave people a greater opportunity to escape did not hold water with the Cali Fed Judge.

Yes -- he calls it the "lethal pause" when it is a defender trying to juggle a gun, a phone to call 911, and a spare mag in her third hand.

 

[nwslopoke]

Cali's position that a smaller capacity mag gave people a greater opportunity to escape did not hold water with the Cali Fed Judge.

It also doesn't hold water with reality.

 

[L84Cabo]

Funny thing is the people voted this crap into law so is anything going to really change in Cali? The laws are and will but the people, culture and disdain for the 2A not so much.

I have long given up caring about trying to change the culture. The law, however, is everything. Get the law changed...or affirmed...and the culture is largely irrelevant. Because once STANDARD capacity mags are affirmed as constitutionally protected, liberals can whine all they want to about it. But there's not a damn thing they can do.

And that doesn't mean they won't try. They will of course. But we have long past the point of reason and debate. This is a war for our rights. And it needs to be fought state by state. Because if we don't fight it, the disease will spread. We're already seeing how Californication is affecting Oregon, Washington, Nevada, etc.

Heck, just recently Oregon was trying to put forth legislation to limit magazine capacity to five rounds. A win on the Becerra case in California would have enormous impact on Oregon too since they are both part of the 9th. Not to mention that a win on this in California would likely setup a challenge for the rest of the states that have magazine capacity restrictions.

So yes, I do hear you and agree that nothing will change in terms of the culture in California. But the legal battles are absolutely critical to fight and win.

 

[L84Cabo]

Stay filed. Can't express my hatred for CA here in words without getting banned.

Duncan v. Becerra | Michel & Associates, P.C.

This is a beautiful line. This is the AG of California going on record stating that at this time, LCM's are completely legal in California.

California has restricted the acquisition of LCMs for nearly two decades, and until the Judgment is stayed pending appeal, individuals will be free to acquire new LCMs,and there is evidence that sales have begun already.

 

[Geardo]

and there is evidence that sales have begun already.

Also the understatement of the century.

 

[User 1234]

The request for stay has been filed, no decision yet from the court of appeals on whether they will stay the judgment (and freeze the acquisition of magazines by Californians).

 

[awshoot]

I was searching on the names of some of the researchers cited in Duncan -- Carlisle E. Moody had a deposition taken summarized by Judge Benitez:

"[f]irearms fitted with large capacity magazines can be used to cause death and injury in public shooting incidents, and can also result in more rounds fired and more homicides in general than similar firearms with smaller magazines," but concedes this conclusion is simply theoretical. DX-7 at 472-73 (Q. And what is the basis for that statement? How did you arrive at that conclusion? A. Just theoretically.").

Which is interesting considering a 2015 paper Carlisle published entitled "Firearms and the Decline of Violence in Europe: 1200-2010" nicely summarized and linked to here: Carlisle Moody: Handguns Stop Murders Moody explains that the invention of the wheel lock and then flintlock (which were apparently affordable, approx $200 in modern money for a paired basic model) are associated with a decrease in the murder rate over the centuries as they became more ubiquitous. From the summary:

In Britain, by 1920 it had fallen to .84 per 100,000. That was the year The Firearms Act was passed essentially ending the English right to bear arms. Since then the British murder rate has risen to 1.44 (as of 1999) and the assault rate has exploded from 2.39 per 100,000 to 419.29.

From Carlisle's paper:

After the invention of the pistol, for the first time in history, the physically weak were placed on equal footing with the strong. From this point on, potential assailants had to weigh the risk of serious injury or death if the intended victim turned out to be armed. The wheel lock pistol was an enormous advance in the technology of self-defense. Of course, criminals could also acquire firearms, reducing the advantage of the armed victim. However, even if both the assailant and the victim are armed, the physically weaker victim is still better off than before because the playing field is at least even, rather than tilted in favor of the larger, stronger, more aggressive assailant.

Which makes me wonder how it is that Carlisle ended up being used by the State of California to support its argument.

 

[L84Cabo]

This is hilarious...and awesome!

PMAG (Gen 2) 30-round - Cali Savior

 

[tkdguy]

The request for stay has been filed, no decision yet from the court of appeals on whether they will stay the judgment (and freeze the acquisition of magazines by Californians).

do you have a reference for the request for the stay....

 

[awshoot]

do you have a reference for the request for the stay....

This link cited upthread: Duncan v. Becerra | Michel & Associates, P.C. has most of the briefs and filings in the case since its inception. There's at least two weekend's worth of solid reading in that.

 

[tkdguy]

Study: 'Assault Weapons,' Magazine Bans Do Not Lower Homicide Rates

 

[GWS]

As I understand things, first Basura has to ask Benitez to stay his own decision. He asked for it by Friday 4/5.
If I understand the law, they have to wait for his answer before filing appeal with the 9th.
So, if vendors are smart they are having all hands on deck to get every possible order shipped before that injunction gets issued.

 

[Rick4570]

well just got 2 emails one from Brownells and another from Classic Arms telling that they will be shipping High Cap Mags for both rifle and pistol to any purchasers in California that wish to buy them. time to stock here.

 

[RedRover]

So, if vendors are smart they are having all hands on deck to get every possible order shipped before that injunction gets issued.

Have the Airdrops in California begun yet?

 

[slimmer13]

Elections matter

Trump reshapes long-liberal 9th Circuit, as Republican-appointed judges gain seats on court