Big bad wolf...meet bullet

[JGRuby]

First off we choose how we want to live our lives and in most part where you want to live. You choose many things in life - I would argue that a rancher has made choices that make him a rancher, a computer geek, or a truck driver. Why do you expect others to feel sorry for some one that has chosen to be a land poor rancher - that was and is the choice of those that ranch. The most cattle my dad ever had at one time was about 60 head of polled herford. It was from raising these 60 head that I decided that I did not want to farm.

Lets get one thing straight - ranching is a business - it is a carreer - it is a business if money was not made they would not be ranching for very long. So do we say because your plant or shop or business is shutting down or having a hard time - we will not shut the plant down because it might effect your lively hood. In short the business must change or go out of business. Because gas is too high and we have to raise the price of the product to the point where no one wants to purchase it at that price you should be felt sorry for by others? Ranchers are to me like this - they are crying because they have chosen to be land poor, and a hard life and now the wolf has created a blip on there radar. So exaclty how should we feel about a business that has wiped out a species in a specific area so that they can make more money for themselves. I see ranchers in general as that business.

James Ruby

 

[BroncoFan]

First off we choose how we want to live our lives and in most part where you want to live. You choose many things in life - I would argue that a rancher has made choices that make him a rancher, a computer geek, or a truck driver. Why do you expect others to feel sorry for some one that has chosen to be a land poor rancher - that was and is the choice of those that ranch. The most cattle my dad ever had at one time was about 60 head of polled herford. It was from raising these 60 head that I decided that I did not want to farm.

Lets get one thing straight - ranching is a business - it is a carreer - it is a business if money was not made they would not be ranching for very long. So do we say because your plant or shop or business is shutting down or having a hard time - we will not shut the plant down because it might effect your lively hood. In short the business must change or go out of business. Because gas is too high and we have to raise the price of the product to the point where no one wants to purchase it at that price you should be felt sorry for by others? Ranchers are to me like this - they are crying because they have chosen to be land poor, and a hard life and now the wolf has created a blip on there radar. So exaclty how should we feel about a business that has wiped out a species in a specific area so that they can make more money for themselves. I see ranchers in general as that business.

James Ruby

Who said to feel sorry for the ranchers? The last thing I have every experienced is a "poor me" attitude from a farmer or rancher. You want wolvees re-introduced? Fine let it be survival of the fittest without arbitrary and capricious government involvement. My guess is the rural rancher will be one of the ones left standing. BTW - Maybe there should be some consideration that 5% of the population feeds not only the other 95% of the country but many other countries, too.

 

[mrblond]

Ranching is not a job, its a lifestyle, a way of life. You dont head off to collage and take ranching 101, you live it. My great uncle ranched since he was a boy, only pausing to kill Germans, until his retirement in which he let his son take over. Honestly, as I said before, let the wolves come. The problem ones will be culled and the rest will adapt or get killed off again.

 

[hermannr]

Ranching is not a job, its a lifestyle, a way of life. You dont head off to collage and take ranching 101, you live it. My great uncle ranched since he was a boy, only pausing to kill Germans, until his retirement in which he let his son take over. Honestly, as I said before, let the wolves come. The problem ones will be culled and the rest will adapt or get killed off again.

The problem with that idea is the law will not allow you to just take care of the problem. If a rancher could kill the wolf or Grizzly that was killing his livestock, I doubt it would be a problem. The Wolves and Grizzlies that lived would just go back to Canada,

 

[coyote223]

Lets get one thing straight - ranching is a business - it is a carreer - it is a business if money was not made they would not be ranching for very long. So do we say because your plant or shop or business is shutting down or having a hard time - we will not shut the plant down because it might effect your lively hood. In short the business must change or go out of business. Because gas is too high and we have to raise the price of the product to the point where no one wants to purchase it at that price you should be felt sorry for by others? Ranchers are to me like this - they are crying because they have chosen to be land poor, and a hard life and now the wolf has created a blip on there radar. So exaclty how should we feel about a business that has wiped out a species in a specific area so that they can make more money for themselves. I see ranchers in general as that business.

James Ruby

How about we bail them out, like we did with the automakers?


So JG was raised in ranching, yet he has a deep seeded hate for ranchers. Interesting stuff,,,:huh:

 

[JGRuby]

I have some real issues with some Ranchers-I dont deny that-especailly the ones that use BLM land or governmet land at a pittance of what it costs to maintain that land. When we raised our catttle we used our own property. I am tired of finding new fences where no fences are suppose to be built ( I exclude old fence runs ). We did not expect the tax payers to pickup the tab for us. We kept our cattle on our own property not this open range stuff that is pulled out here. I can ony guess the number of cattle that walk down the middle fork of the John Dey river road. Ranchers use open range to reduce the amount of effort / costs it takes to raise the cattle. Ranchers use the BLM land which competes with our elk herds yet charge absorbnant sums to hunt thier property's for the elk that would be on public property if the grazing was better. They take from the public and then stick it to the public. I will support any rancher that keeps and maintains thier herd on there own property and honestly in a case where a wolf is killing cattle on privately owned property that animal needs to be removed but simply by being a wolf should not mean a death sentence. The ranchers are the ones that destroyed wolves in the first place for thier own greed. You raise / graze your animals on public property you take your chances. This is my opinion - you dont have to like it.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Are you ready to pay a lot more for a prime rib steak? I am very much against most government programs (If I were dictator the feds would get 95% + cuts by utterly removing 98% of their agencies) but maybe the BLM thing for cattle raising isn't so bad

 

[JGRuby]

Oregon produces less than 2% of the total beef production in the US - yes raise it a few cents if you want. I suspect that if they raise it too much the ranchers would be hurting themselves.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Soylent green here we come

 

[gehrheart]

Soylent green here we come

hmmmm its people!!!


Interesting discussion, being from Alaska I used to hunt wolfs all the time. Personally dont have a problem with re-introduction of the same wolf that lived in these parts, however taking a wolf type from another area and planting them here it not re-introducing, it meddling further with other nature and making a wrong even more wrong. we are the dominate species, simple fact.
Id rather eat free range beef then some corporate farm penned in cow that is feed full of crap!

If there are going to be wolfs, then there are those that will shoot the wolfs. the cycle of life goes on on the one on top wins.... Well unless yours some pro agenda 21 type that thinks that all that land need to be returned to the animals and humans need to all go live in the big city eating each other.

Survival of the fittest, I see no reason what so ever at all, that these area's require habitation by the arctic wolf... None.

 

[ThePhonMan]

This discussion shows how diverse the attitudes toward wildlife and its associated management truly are.

Like it or not, with the re-introduction of the wolf comes a "management plan" that will always include selective execution of problem animals or packs. This isn't a Disney movie where the talking animals have a keen understanding of human motivations. This is reality.

I had the misfortune of living in the southern district of the People's Republic of California when the "animal lovers" pushed for the pretty kitty law that basically outlawed hunting mountain lions. The result, as predicted by the head of fish and game, was increased mauling and killings of humans as the cats expanded their territory virtually unchecked.

As in every aspect of nature there is a natural balance that will eventually be achieved but arbitrary introduction and protection laws won't achieve any kind of balance with an animal that hasn't been present in the area for nearly a century. Wolves are beautiful animals that hunt like sharks with teammates. That's their very nature and we wouldn't want it any other way. But there will always be consequences for any action, human or animal.

With the recent announcement that the entire Wedge pack will be eliminated due to its dependence on livestock as its primary food source, I'm afraid this discussion will only get uglier and facts and reality will drop from the conversation.

But what do I know...

 

[JGRuby]

I wonder how many cattle these ranches lose to natural deaths versus to the number lost to wolves. I wonder if these ranchers actually kept these cattle in fenced pastures instead of open ranging them onto public property if the mortality rates would be decreased. I know it actually might mean the ranchers might have to work harder and pay more attention to thier herds. Might actually mean that the ranchers would stop getting hand outs from using public property that tax payers pay the cost of using. Just maybe the native species might return to the areas the ranchers exterminated them from.

Just some thoughts

James Ruby

 

[gehrheart]

The arctic wolf is not native to this area!

And you Mr. JGRUBY have never worked a ranch have you? Not that i advocate tax dollars being feed to ranchers.....

Personaly I prefer free range beef. Though I think beef is the wrong animal and they would be better served ranching Bison... free range of course.

This isnt reintroducing, this is putting in an animal that simply does not belong and never inhabited the area in the first place!!!

 

[JGRuby]

I have raised beef cattle but not in the fashion they do out here in Oregon. On my dads farm we raised everythng from Brahmas to limousine to Kianeea crosses, Charleigh and Angus and polled herford. I have been dragged through a pasture and have been knee deep in fecal mattter. I have baled hay starting at Sunrise and worked til the next morning due to rain coming in to save the timothy clover and alfalfa. I have gotten out of bed jumped into a snow mobile suit when it was below zero and fed the cattle before I got fed. I remember chopping ice out of the cow tanks and the sting of that ice hitting my face for not swinging clean. I have raised cattle and I have seen cattle die due to predation and disease.

Sorry wolves were there before there were ranchers and ranchers exteminated the wolf. The ranchers are taking handouts using public land below the cost of even administering the land but complaining when they have to deal wolves on that public property.

My solution keep your cattle on your property as others do. Put your cattle in a pasture and feed your cattle as others do around the country. Watch your herds as others do instead of free ranging them.

James Ruby

 

[mrblond]

I just saw the mentioning of the two 2 wolves culled up there and reading the comments, all the dope smoking, tree hugging, PETA freaks came out of the woodwork. They were preying on cattle and were culled as they should have been. If the wolf is to return these are the measures that will have to be done to keep them there. by the way, they said there were grey wolves and not arctic wolves as someone mentioned.