Another Fed agent gun "accident"

[Oathkeeper1775]

Nearly every modern HG I've seen has the firing pin safety; the spring loaded detent hanging down in the back of the slide. Maybe the "agent" had the HG modified...

I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the FBI conduct HG training on too many occasions; some of them turn their heads or drop the HGs when fired....10 feet away and hitting the 2x4 frames...

 

[ob1]

I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the FBI conduct HG training on too many occasions;

So where did you see this...at a local field training class or at Quantico ?

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

So where did you see this...at a local field training class or at Quantico ?

A military "facility" in Texas; lots of feds would train there; DOE, DOI, & DOJ; being the least capable.

 

[ob1]

OK..a local field training class {I'm guessing Killeen} I'm trying to understand a couple things.

One. The proficiency level you describe would have disqualified a candidate{s} from graduating from the Academy in the first place. They are all observed, one on one and video taped before passing f/a training. Yet you observed this on multiple occasions of multiple, credentialed field agents.

Two, I'm taking it you were a sworn LEO during these occurrences. As such, did you not think it your responsibility to mention it to the range master, or at least take it up with your own chain of command ?

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

OK..a local field training class {I'm guessing Killeen} I'm trying to understand a couple things.

One. The proficiency level you describe would have disqualified a candidate{s} from graduating from the Academy in the first place. They are all observed, one on one and video taped before passing f/a training. Yet you observed this on multiple occasions of multiple, credentialed field agents.

Two, I'm taking it you were a sworn LEO during these occurrences. As such, did you not think it your responsibility to mention it to the range master, or at least take it up with your own chain of command ?

Nope, I'll PM you the location.

We were a hand full of combat arms soldiers who were assigned to run a military facility where many different agencies would conduct various types of training.

Our roles were housekeeping, range control, and facility maintenance; strengths and weaknesses of the visitors was out of our scope

Honestly, weapons proficiency was apparently not the forte' of some agents. I'm sure their analytical abilities more than made up for their shortcomings.

It was my understanding that these agents were already on the street; not prospectives.

Hope it helps

 

[ob1]

It was my understanding that these agents were already on the street; not prospectives.

OK, thanks for the info. That explains a few things. I am guessing what you were watching and shaking your head at repeatedly {LOL} was local f/a training class the FBI puts on for local police agencies. Each field division has a cadre of agent f/a instructors who put on road trip schools for the smaller departments who don't have the budget for their own program. It's a stop gap measure for those who aren't nominated to attend the National Academy training in Quantico.
The participants can range from seasoned officers to new hires fresh on the bricks. That seems the more likely scenario to what you were seeing, there are simply too many eyes on the academy candidates too let that egregious of a competency level to slip through the cracks. New Agents don't make it to the street without passing the academy. Of course isolated accidents can happen to anyone, as mistman so aptly put it in this thread...Thanks

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

People who use guns as tools for their work everyday of their lives for years sometimes mess up. I'm related to a federal officer, had a family reunion a few weeks ago. After a few stouts and porters he started talking, we laughed for hours at the hilarity of his anecdotes. Some of the best were the invariable ND's at the range, on training assignments, in the field, on stake-outs you name it, they did it. Guys shooting each other on raids, a few guys shot other guys in the foot, as long as know one died they laugh. He was a marine stationed at Gitmo before joining the feds and has seen some things. Bullet holes heal up, ask me how I know, but they leave behind some good stories. These guys wouldn't dare tell the world, it's all fraternity talk. If it happens out of the public eye no one's going to hear about it, it's humiliating.

I've heard it all, lot's of people will say an AD/ND is BS, it should never happen, EVER!!! If it does then you're an incompetent fool who shouldn't be allowed to handle a firearm. Maybe, maybe not. The problem is we're human and like Forrest said 'bubblegum happens'. I'd rather spend the day shooting w/a guy who's honest about himself than a self righteous boob who's stuck on his perceived perfection.

I try not to use superlatives, I learned long ago you can't predict the future. I've heard too many people say 'it'll never happen to me' (regarding many things), I just laugh inside and try not to be mean when it does.

Even the legend Wyatt Earp experienced a dropped-gun accidental discharge. He never had another one as far as historians can tell. And I would challenge anyone to call him incompetent to his face if he were here today. It can happen to the best.

 

[Bushman]

I'm sure he will be promoted to Captain.

 

[DaveLikesGuns]

My dad told me a story: As a rookie cop he dropped a loaded revolver in between the seats of a squad car. Rather than reaching in to get it the car was brought back to the station and the seat was removed. The gun was safely given back to my dad. Other than some well deserved verbal abuse no one got hurt. I've never thought about what I would do if I dropped a hand gun but now I know to just let it fall.

 

[Mark W.]

Maybe but we will never know do to virtually no reporting. However there are documented cases of 'ADs' with some of the early pioneers coming from the East to West via wagons. Grabbing a rifle by the barrel that was hanging on an inside rack probably accounted for more than a few but probably the biggest contributor was the complete last of any safety training on new guns sold to sometimes first time gun owners 'Heading West'. Winchester was the heaviest promoter of guns for those traveling West and often cited examples of potential treats requiring a firearm for protection and therefore sold more than most - but with virtually no safety accompanying the sale.

Winchesters didn't go to the West with the big migrations the wagon trains to Oregon and California started in 1836 and declined rapidly after the transcontinental railroad was completed in 1869. With the first Winchesters hitting the market in 1866 and being one of the most expensive and least Homestead capable firearms of the day I doubt more then a handful ever made the Wagon train trip. Easily the most common firearm on the Wagon trains was a Muzzle loading shotgun.
Winchesters would have been more of a traveler by train firearm.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've trained myself so well that.. just don't let me hold your baby is what I'm saying.










lol

 

[ageingstudent]

Winchesters didn't go to the West with the big migrations the wagon trains to Oregon and California started in 1836 and declined rapidly after the transcontinental railroad was completed in 1869. With the first Winchesters hitting the market in 1866 and being one of the most expensive and least Homestead capable firearms of the day I doubt more then a handful ever made the Wagon train trip. Easily the most common firearm on the Wagon trains was a Muzzle loading shotgun.
Winchesters would have been more of a traveler by train firearm.

My 5th gen great grand pappy Thomas Cullwell Keizur died from someone elses ND down by Dorena I think it was. Someone flipping around a Colt while riding in a train car and pulled the trigger. Funny how things get ingrained in a family most of my relatives in that branch of the tree are unusually fearful of handguns.

 

[clearconscience]

Which is one reason why I am comfortable in not using or relying on a mechanical safety.
When you don't have a mechanical safety you tend to focus on:
Keeping your finger off the trigger.
And
Always pointing your muzzle in a safe direction.

Now none of the above is to say that these old guns are "safer" than a modern gun... There are plenty of ND's in old accounts.

I'm just saying that for me ... having shot guns and owning guns that do not have a mechanical safety , has made me more aware of where my finger is at and where my muzzle is pointing.
Andy

When I first started carrying I had to have a pistol with a safety. I had to have that visual that is was safe.
I still strongly practiced gun safety measures, but had to have the no brain visual.

After getting more comfortable with carrying and being around firearms you realize the only safety is your own discipline.
Instinctively you have to always handle a firearm with your finger off the trigger, know your surroundings, move smoothly, not fast, and always keep your muzzle in a safe direction.

I even hold my power drill at work pointed away from people and keep my finger off the trigger.

The only accidents are from bad habits or ignorance.

 

[ageingstudent]

When I first started carrying I had to have a pistol with a safety. I had to have that visual that is was safe.
I still strongly practiced gun safety measures, but had to have the no brain visual.

After getting more comfortable with carrying and being around firearms you realize the only safety is your own discipline.
Instinctively you have to always handle a firearm with your finger off the trigger, know your surroundings, move smoothly, not fast, and always keep your muzzle in a safe direction.

I even hold my power drill at work pointed away from people and keep my finger off the trigger.

The only accidents are from bad habits or ignorance.

The leading edge of any tool bit designed for cutting is a high speed projectile that travels in a circle. You can't be too careful. The same safety rules apply--it's between the ears.

 

[Tony617]

Federal agent in Orlando tries to catch his dropped weapon and shoots himself in the heel


Federal agent shoots himself in foot at Orlando International Airport Federal agent shoots himself in foot at Orlando International Airport

Maybe he was carrying a Glock and pulled the trigger when he tried to catch it?

 

[MrMillspecer]

I have let two rifles hit the ground. One was Gramps 30/06, while riding a Suzuki quad one of the first released on the market, when I was around 12 years old. Yes going too fast, had a need for speed. Another AR hit the ground when a sling let loose. Not bad for 40 plus years. And nothing went boom. Hope it never happens again. Great reminder not to try and catch one. Even one with three safety's , because stuff happen.

I wonder how many 1911s or p226s have hit the ground in their services. More than we'll ever know about.

 

[DunRanull]

I bet it was a Glock....

Glocks are known for firing themselves, particularly while being holstered...