A morbid perspective on active shooter situations and saving lives

[Brutus57]

You get to believe what you like. But when your family looks for you at Thanksgiving dinner and see's an empty place at the head of the table, if they have a table to eat on, that will be cold comfort.

Risking your life for someone that is not part of your "tribe" is not a positive thing for you or your family.

So Americans aren't part of your "tribe"? IMHO innocents regardless of their political or religious ilk do not deserve to be shot down like rabid dogs. There is right and wrong, there are sins of omission and sins of commission.

Brutus Out

 

[Koda]

here is another perspective on this subject. There is an old saying many here should be familiar with... "there is no such thing as an Atheist on the battlefield"

One could say... "there is no such thing as a gun controller in an active shooter situation"

my point is we need more good guys with guns saving the day would make a better political point about gun control than letting gun controllers die in their own folly.

 

[Koda]

I also want to point out that this morbidly perspective also has no way of knowing in advance who else in the crowd of innocents is a gun rights supporter that for whatever reason or another didn't or was prohibited from carrying that day. The idea that we should pre-meditate a political response to such an evil event is as much a morbid perspective.

 

[Goosebrown]

So Americans aren't part of your "tribe"? IMHO innocents regardless of their political or religious ilk do not deserve to be shot down like rabid dogs. There is right and wrong, there are sins of omission and sins of commission.

I am OK with sins of omission when it is not risking my life to save people that are in opposition to what I want from this country.

No one deserves to be shot down, but neither I nor you should put ourselves in danger to protect most of these people.

No. Americans in general are not part of my tribe. Relatives perhaps. Cousins. Closer than Syrian refugees, however people in my tribe are Oregonian gun owners and Oregonian conservatives, then American gun owners and American conservatives, then... well not so much.

if they aren't my tribe, they aren't my monkeys and not my circus. I would do what I could if my life were in danger or my family or my friends, but there are just too many "Americans" about whom I don't give a bubblegum.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

so has no way of knowing in advance who else in the crowd of innocents is a gun rights supporter that for whatever reason or another didn't or was prohibited from carrying that day. The idea that we should pre-meditate a political response to such an evil event is as much a morbid persp

The case was meant to apply to an almost completely Democratic area like SoCal. I thought this was an interesting mental exercise in weighing personal risk and gain.

 

[Koda]

The case was meant to apply to an almost completely Democratic area like SoCal. I thought this was an interesting mental exercise in weighing personal risk and gain.

how is SoCal any different than democratically controlled Oregon?

 

[Medic!]

I want you all to consider how your handgun will stack up against a man with a rifle?

Little chance of success. And almost certain death!

OK then. I'm in!

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

how is SoCal any different than democratically controlled Oregon?

Outside of Multnomah Co. there's more of a mix. Most of Oregon geographically isn't blue.

 

[Koda]

I want you all to consider how your handgun will stack up against a man with a rifle?

Little chance of success. And almost certain death!

OK then. I'm in!

I have to politely disagree with this. The only time a handgun does not stack up against a rifle is outside of handgun range. Most of these mass shootings take place inside handgun range.

 

[Koda]

Outside of Multnomah Co. there's more of a mix. Most of Oregon geographically isn't blue.

and why would California be any different?

...there are a lot of members here on this forum that live in Multnomah County...

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

and why would California be any different?

...there are a lot of members here on this forum that live in Multnomah County...

I'm not so sure it wouldn't be. I haven't really come to a mental conclusion on what route I'd pick to go. The way I'm leaning is to escape and only engage when necessary. It seems to me that the more trained people are the more willing they might be or the more confident they might be in taking such a risk to try and save others.

 

[Stomper]

I have to politely disagree with this. The only time a handgun does not stack up against a rifle is outside of handgun range. Most of these mass shootings take place inside handgun range.

Pssstt..... that wasn't his point.

 

[Koda]

Pssstt..... that wasn't his point.

ok, sometimes I miss the obvious this one flew over my head...

 

[Medic!]

I have to politely disagree with this. The only time a handgun does not stack up against a rifle is outside of handgun range. Most of these mass shootings take place inside handgun range.

The longer weapon and sight radius makes it easier to point and shoot an AR rifle.

An AR rifle will be hitting with 1200 foot pounds of energy vs the 350-400 foot pounds from a pistol.
Do you think hitting a guy 1/3 as hard as he can hit you stack up as equal?

A rifle will stop someone much faster than a pistol. At any distance

You may be a good pistol shot. And put your rounds on target.
But your just not able to hit as hard!

A pistol is a defensive gun.
Best used to fight your way to a rifle.

But that wasn't my point.

 

[Koda]

I'm not so sure it wouldn't be. I haven't really come to a mental conclusion on what route I'd pick to go. The way I'm leaning is to escape and only engage when necessary. It seems to me that the more trained people are the more willing they might be or the more confident they might be in taking such a risk to try and save others.

thats an honest reply. My only advice is to follow your heart not something you hear on a radio show. IMO the right to keep an bear arms is about preserving life, not a political statement. There isnt any training facility I've researched that teaches civilians to seek out to engage... It seems to me that the more trained people are the more they realize they are not superman....

 

[Koda]

You may be a good pistol shot. And put your rounds on target.
But your just not able to hit as hard!

a 22 to the eye has more stopping power than a 223 to the leg...

 

[Medic!]

I have old eyes.

You could probably do it!

 

[IheartSig]

Yes. I am a tribalist and nationalist.

Proudly.

My family first, my friends close second, Oregon, then the rest of the world.

Life is, when you think of it, a piece of bubblegum for most people a lot of the time. I am not going to risk for one instant those important to me for a stranger. If there is no risk, sure as long as I know they aren't a liberal of some sort, but risk myself?

Nope.

BIG nope.

And as I say room full of kindergartners or person on the street, mine are more important than theirs. That should apply to you as well. Don't risk your loved one's livelihood and father/brother/mother/sister for someone you don't know. That isn't heroic, that is stupid.

The country you claim affinity for, through Nationalism, would be a far , far different place right now if our ancestors felt and behaved in the manner outlined above.

 

[mkwerx]

Innocent lives deserve saving despite political affiliation. You cannot change the mind nor win the heart of a dead man. Seeing first hand that it's not just police and soldiers who can do good deeds with a tool like a firearm may pry a closed mind open, even just a bit and that's a start - but when the bullets are flying and the mad man or woman is engaging in murder - politics and religion and any differences we may or may not have matter not - as it becomes an US Vs THEM situation - US being the would-be-victims of a person or group bent on killing.

To have the tools to stop the carnage but the lack of will to use them is to me, inexcusable. It's one thing if the opportunity to engage and end the killer doesn't present itself, or if engaging the killer would result in the likely wounding or death of others - for instance he's standing in the middle of a crowd spraying rounds and you cannot get a clean shot - or where a miss WILL hit an innocent person. But if the opportunity presents itself, and you have a firearm with which to engage, and you are at all proficient with that firearm, and you DON'T engage, if innocents die from your inaction can you live with yourself?

Do I want my family safe? Damn right. I would tell them to run as far and as fast as they can. My wife, my son, my family knows that I love them and they love me. My wife and my family also know that I am not the type of person to stand idly by and let something like that happen without trying to stop it. I risk my life every day - with a much greater chance of serious injury or death than of ever finding myself in an active shooter situation - for a far cry less than to save someone's life, so if such a time comes that we are in an active shooting - my loved ones would understand. If I died trying to save others, they would accept it and morn my loss but they would understand. It is just part of who I am as a person. They know that. I have enough regrets in my life without adding such a big one if I were faced with that situation. I hope I never have to face that situation, and if I do I will do my damnedest to come out alive and prevail. I hope it would be enough.

 

[IheartSig]

Innocent lives deserve saving despite political affiliation. You cannot change the mind nor win the heart of a dead man. Seeing first hand that it's not just police and soldiers who can do good deeds with a tool like a firearm may pry a closed mind open, even just a bit and that's a start - but when the bullets are flying and the mad man or woman is engaging in murder - politics and religion and any differences we may or may not have matter not - as it becomes an US Vs THEM situation - US being the would-be-victims of a person or group bent on killing.

Excellent point Mkwerx. It would certainly not be the first time an unpopular opinion was embraced through dedication and action by people who were willing to put it all out there for people who were thankless enemies prior to that pivotal moment.