A morbid perspective on active shooter situations and saving lives

[rick benjamin]

Once again, you are attributing the perspective of someone else to me. I merely pose the question for discussion.

Your broken-record remarks are far more consistent with that of a troll than my questions.

You aren't considering the bigger picture.

 

[rick benjamin]

You might be right...
I do do it for pay.
But it can't be taxed, isn't in the coinage of the realm.
A total mercenary, but that's just me.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

You aren't considering the bigger picture.

I know, I asked a question about the argument that someone else proposed. I must have a psychiatric diagnosis then, right?

[Awaits more name-calling]

 

[Goosebrown]

He has you and I confused. He attributes my remarks to you.

 

[cascadianliberty2012]

He has you and I confused. He attributes my remarks to you.

Yet we're both being quoted. This is truly bizarre.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I can see some of the points BUT, I could not live with myself or the guilt of knowing that I ran, or did nothing. That to me would be worse than death.

Sadly, I know full well Ill probably die if there is an active shooter situation, BUT some of those unarmed folks fleeing may very well be children or elderly people with slow reation tine. They cannot defend themselves nor can they carry.. They are free of politics.. AND them seeing an armed civilian might just sway them to carry when they grow up or to go against their idiot parents sheepish mentality and defend firearm owners and those of us that would help others at any cost.
Hearts and minds works for a reason.

Same goes for some adults, that type of event (sadly) is the only wake up call that can turn some folks, to see that force on force is the only way to stop a threat, that cops arent always there when you need them, that being a coward ISNT an option.

So thats my opinion, Im a young man with lots to live for. I have a great family, life, business..etc. I dont want to die, but Id rather die than be a coward.

 

[rick benjamin]

Does such a perspective have any validity?

"A mental view or outlook, worldview, paradigm"
"logically or factually sound, legally or officially binding or acceptable"
Answer: it depends on how a reasonable and prudent citizen would or wouldn't act.

 

[jbett98]

There is a member here that drew down on the Clackamas Town Center shooter and if I remember correctly, the nut case shooter decided to run away and off himself instead of confronting someone with a loaded weapon.
So, not all scenarios end up with a bad ending for the person who decides to make a stand and not run away with his own brand of moral principals leading the way.

 

[Aaron Todd]

I would attempt to save anyone I could realistically save. Obviously not the shooter! I don't care what side of the Isle they sit on or whatever... people need to help people especially in a situation like these. However, you have to realize your ACTUAL skills and how bad the situation is, you won't do anyone and good if you are killed.

 

[Goosebrown]

There is a member here that drew down on the Clackamas Town Center shooter and if I remember correctly, the nut case shooter decided to run away and off himself instead of confronting someone with a loaded weapon.
So, not all scenarios end up with a bad ending for the person who decides to make a stand and not run away with his own brand of moral principals leading the way.

True and he made a good decision. Many pats on the back to him. However if he had put his family at stake, that would have been a call only he could have made.

 

[TapRackNGo]

Well, clearly dying is not positive.

However, if I'm in an active shooter sutuation, have the ability to stop it and consciously choose not to because the people I would save might vote for a different candidate than I do, then I wouldn't be able to face my family at Thanksgiving anyway.

But that's me, and I'm glad I live in a world where I'm not the only one who feels this way. My world includes soldiers, police officers, firefighters, and other brave men and women who risk their lives for complete strangers every single day.

Police, Firefighters, Soldiers all have the gov't on their side in a situation like that. You as a civilian engaging a shooter do not. When the smoke clears there is a lawyer attached to every round fired from your weapon. Unless there was a threat between family and me or the exit, my first priority is to them. I'm not looking to be a hero and this isn't the movies. Everyone else should be a responsible citizen and arm themselves and get training. A children's school might be a different situation, but every situation is different.

You may be mistaken for the perp, it happens. Police (LAPD specifically) in the Chris Dorner situation as an example Officers Who Shot at Delivery Women Violated Policy

Running towards rifle fire with a CCW wouldn't be sound tactical advice even if you had the law on your side. Now if you had the law on your side, and had your long gun that's a different story.

 

[fxdc]

Soo as I kick to door in and yell ALL PRO GUN PEOPLE FOLLOW ME, AND THE ONLY ONES THAT DO ARE THE SHOOTERS.

LMAO!!!

 

[etrain16]

I still can't say exactly how I would react in an active shooter situation. There are any of a number of scenarios that could play out in a thousand different ways that would affect any response. As I've stated before, I'm not a trained LEO, but I have some training in self defense. Like others, I have a very hard time ignoring a threat to people other than myself. I've stepped into a number of fights over the years that were not my own in order to protect someone that could not protect themselves. I grew up being taught not to be a bully, and to defend/protect those that can't defend themselves. In the cases of the fights I intervened in, my personal safety was low on the consideration scale. Go after children, women, the elderly or the handicapped, and I'm even more likely to jump in. Two guys going at it in a fairly even match, they can work that sh!t out themselves.

The in my mind plan for an active shooting is to get my family to safety first, me second, others third. If we find ourselves in a location where a shooter is between us and the only exit, then I fully expect to engage them to the best of my ability. I, like others here, am very bothered by the thought of running away from people that are being killed/wounded - it goes against part of who I am. But I do consider my carry piece to be a last resort, I don't walk around in body armor, with an AR over my shoulder, which means in many cases, I would be grossly out-gunned by whatever madman/woman is unloading on a group of people. I could only hope there is a brief lull in the attack due to magazine change or gun jam, and try to take advantage of that window.

I'm thankful for those that would and do charge in. But until it happens to me (which it hopefully never will), I really can't be 100% certain of my ultimate response.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You can "what if" yourself to death with these types of questions and scenarios. And it it really easy for me to say that I would would do this or that as I type this reply with my beer in my easy chair.
When its for real one never really knows what one will do , until you do it.
Having been though four combat tours and been shot at a bit I know what I wanted to do , but I did what needed to be done instead.
Sometimes that meant going forward to the gunfire , sometimes breaking contact was for the best and sometimes just sucking it up and driving on was the only option.
My best advice is to be alert and have a plan A , B and C if needed.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

The second argument is practically and morally corrupt.

So you're going to take a political survey before drawing down? Or just make a judgment call based on appearances?

Only people who agree with your ideology are worthy of life? That's just about as un-American an idea as you can get, IMO.

I contend that you're not reading it correctly.

The question is NOT, "are they worthy of life?"

The question IS, "are they worthy of YOUR life?"



Having said that, I ascribe to the proverb: Evil prevails when good men do nothing.


There's my code of ethics, and as for providing for my family if I'm gone... I have over $1,000,000.00 in life insurance on myself. Read into it what you will.

 

[jbett98]

Isn't that what's life's all about. Trying to make the best decisions at the right time and the right place.
If your moral obligation is only to you and yours, then I'm fine with that.

 

[Stomper]

Isn't that what's life's all about. Trying to make the best decisions at the right time and the right place.
If your moral obligation is only to you and yours, then I'm fine with that.

Me too, but only if I like your haircut.

 

[Goosebrown]

Me too, but only if I like your haircut.

Well what if there isn't much hair to cut?

 

[Stomper]

Well what if there isn't much hair to cut?

Then we consider the shine.

 

[robertg]

I'm a regular follower of Stefan Molyneux and I agree with almost everything he say's but not in this case, at least for me. I can't see myself just running away.