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One more thing.. cops, all cops, local, state, federal.. are civilians
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One more thing.. cops, all cops, local, state, federal.. are civilians
dmancornell,
If you are trying to convince people on this forum that libertarianism or anarcho-capitalism is a better system than statism you are doing a terrible job. You come across as extremely contentious.
Don't blame the internet, blame the dictionary,
Civilian - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Only active military are non civilians, I don't care what that link states. Almost everyone in the know agrees
Quote of the Day: Cops Are Civilians Too Edition | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns
Well, these people must not be in the know. I think they've been pwn'd.
Civilian | Define Civilian at Dictionary.com
civilian - definition of civilian by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
civilian - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education
Civilian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm familiar with your example. Not saying you're wrong but I guess I may have a different take on the issue.
I don't doubt that there are LEO's that would follow any order without thinking about it but I would submit that most LEO's outside of major metropolitan cities would likely NOT just blindly follow any order. I know a handful of LEO's personally and I know that there are a few that post on this forum. What I have learned is that cops tend to be either conservatively leaning or firmly conservative both in political philosophy and action. They have their own personal firearms at home. They support the 2A. They have civilian friends. If the LEO's ever had to follow through on something as egregious (and unlikely) as gun confiscation I have faith that they would balk at this and not follow through. I also believe the civilian gun owning friends would probably serve as a huge example of cognitive dissonance that most (MOST) LEO's would not be able to rationalize and therefore would not follow through with enforcing unenforceble and un-Constitutional edicts. I also think that practically speaking, LEO's would not tolerate getting into firefights everyday against the very people of the community they live in.
YMMV.
Interviewed lots of LEO's all across the country have you?
In a way, I feel sorry for a lot of officers. I did a ride along years ago and the officer I was with broke it down this way, 99% of people can have an argument with a spouse, punish their children, have a civil dispute with a neighbor, etc. like normal, civilized people. The other 1% is what takes up most of the law enforcement's time. I know that's getting a little into the weeds but I think they get so jaded by the scurge of the earth that they have trouble knowing the difference. I think under certain circumstances, a law abiding citizen who refuses to give up their guns and will defend their rights becomes just another scumbag to them. Just my opinion and I'm sure there are a lot of good guys out there in law enforcement, I'm just not convinced they won't be manipulated into taking down enough law abiding folks until it's too late.
In the experiment I referenced, most of those people didn't necessarily follow blindly either. Many of them raised objections and needed to be cajoled or encouraged. Some were in outright tears by the end, but kept going. Add in the sense of not wanting to let their "comrades in arms" down, concern for feeding their families, fear of reprisals, etc, and you could see a lot of upset LEO's and soldiers still following orders they detest.
Of course, the same experiments have also found that a single person making a stand can open the floodgates for others to also stand up. So hopefully there would be enough of those rare individuals willing to make the sacrifice to inspire others.
Most likely, the majority of resistance would be very quiet. It would be the intentional overlook of infractions and not making an effort to find offenders unless it was blatantly shoved in the face of authorities. A lone rural officer might overlook a homeowner fending off an intruder with a handgun. A week later, he might help arrest a group of young men shooting at a gravel pit that incited a bunch of noise complaints from the nearby subdivision. Or he might let them off with a warning if they peacefully turned over their weapons.
Edit to add: Not intending argument Kevatc. Just wanting to expand on the idea that an officer following orders may not be doing so blindly or easily. It may be an extremely hard choice that changes from day to day.
And why are we arguing who are civilians and who aren't? Does it matter? Aren't soldiers simply citizens like the rest of us? Certainly, they do a job that is definitely honorable and necessary, but so do many other people.
LEO's are citizens. Soldiers are citizens. So are firemen, garbage collectors, and structural engineers. We are the same. Seems to me we should act like it rather than trying to raise or lower certain segments of society. Who cares who "civilians" are?
After seeing the Baltimore chief of police on TV in his military style uniform complete with campaign ribbons on his chest and "general" stars on his collar, yes, I think he and all LEOs need to be reminded that they are not soldiers, we are not the enemy, our streets are not war zones, and unidentified people are NOT assumed to be the enemy, to be dealt with lethally.
Ohh, and just a point, I think you should tell the officers is Southern California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, and other states dealing with gangs and cartels that they aren't in a warzone. They might disagree, and they might have a point.
Okay, that answers that question. Does this have anything to do with firearms anymore, or has it deteriorated into another "this is what's wrong with the police" thread? I'm not going to pass judgement on that, but if that's what this is, then shouldn't it be in off-topic?
Ohh, and just a point, I think you should tell the officers is Southern California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, and other states dealing with gangs and cartels that they aren't in a warzone. They might disagree, and they might have a point.