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STUDENTS! ATTEND!I dont think I will ever take a shot on game past 400yds on a windless day.
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STUDENTS! ATTEND!I dont think I will ever take a shot on game past 400yds on a windless day.
i recently bought a 23" carbine barrel in 256 for my contender. i have been playing with the 256 for about 30 years. my first barrel was a 10" octagon bought at a yard sale. i have not killed any thing with it but now i have the carbine maybe i will. the 75 gr. v max is my favorite bullet for this cartridge, but i have some 87 gr. bullets on the way.Which one?
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Thanks for asking. The cartridge kills everything it is directed at.
With respect to @Koda (towards being on topic), the .256 is a recent example of mine where I was happy with a load but changed it to a lighter bullet. The Pronghorn was killed with a 75gr Hornady VMax (driven at .256 velocities it performs like a very good big game bullet, penetrating and expanding).
When "The Wolfer" was built, the Seirra 70gr BlitzKing had been introduced. Magazine length concerns have been at the forefront when loading sharp-nosed bullets in both of these rifles. (I buff the plastic tips to a sort of semi-spitzer).
Having pretty much decided big game ventures with the .256 are over with, I had no problem switching the Wolfer's load to the Sierra. A bit more velocity, and a somewhat shorter bullet overall allowed seating depth to be decreased (still with a buffed tip), and the ogive closer to the lands.
You'll find no arguments from the reclining gentlemen in these photos.
I wouldn't be surprised if the calculated energy of those 140gr bullets is higher than the 162 at 100 to maybe 200 yards.T
For example:
My current load: 140gn Hammer at 3200fps at 600yds gives me 2120fps and 1397ft/lbs of energy.
Their 162gn tipped version at a modest MV estimate of 2900fps results in 2027fps and 1478ft/lbs of energy at 600yds. A difference of 81ftlbs.
note: 600yds for down range comparison only not what I will hunt at. Within reasonable hunting distances the differences is even less. The trade off is probably more recoil.
You are correct except if my MV estimates for the 162 are close enough the higher energy doesn't flip until around 350yds.I wouldn't be surprised if the calculated energy of those 140gr bullets is higher than the 162 at 100 to maybe 200 yards.
That's where the higher velocity pays off. It doesn't last long, but there it is.
The 223 is just fine for deer size game out to/around 3-400yds depending on the bullet velocity. Whats more important than energy is you need to stay above the bullets terminal velocity it needs to expand properly, only after that you want the most energy. You can usually find your bullets terminal velocity from the mfg and you can estimate its terminal velocity in any ballistic calculator. If you cant find the terminal velocity most hunting bullets need at least 2000fps on impact to expand properly. You do need to use a hunting bullet not FMJ so you will probably want to run 223 thru your 556 chamber.Great info here. This subject intrigues me. I'm not a hunter (right now). That's not saying I won't have to become one in the eventual shtf situation where I can't buy my hamburger and chicken at Freddie's anymore..
My interest lies in defensive AR..marksmanship, bullseye targets out to 300yards..so my only experience with a rifle is 5.56 (either 55gr M193 or 62gr M855..that's all I shoot..and only 5.56 nato..not .223.
I've heard alot of hunters cast shade on the .223/5.56 as 'just a .22'..as if it wont kill..which I find amusing.
So I guess I have this question..how deadly would the 5.56 be when it comes to deer/small game hunting, and what is the average, realistic hunting range you guys engage at. 600 yards seems to be a bit of high fish story. I'm really curious.
Im not concerned if you use lead or copper just use a bullet designed for hunting, as FMJ can pencil thru and they can run far before dying. Im guessing if SHTF if your actually resorting to hunting for survival you probably want to minimize the effort.And yes I know the ammo I have is not the best for meat quality..with fragmentation and lead etc...but when it comes to starving or not..I'll deal with the lead and pick the metal out..
I see what you're saying..gotchaIm not concerned if you use lead or copper just use a bullet designed for hunting, as FMJ can pencil thru and they can run far before dying. Im guessing if SHTF if your actually resorting to hunting for survival you probably want to minimize the effort.
I disagree, as it would depend on the application you are using it for. I might agree if you expand your theory to stipulate "cartridge and application," but I think you would have to get so specific with the definition of "application" that it might become a meaningless distinction.I have this theory (and would be worth discussing on its own) that every cartridge has 1 optimal bullet weight.
You could break it down by application, thats fine.I disagree, as it would depend on the application you are using it for. I might agree if you expand your theory to stipulate "cartridge and application," but I think you would have to get so specific with the definition of "application" that it might become a meaningless distinction.
In a hunting camp at which I have literally seen hundreds of head of big game taken, the .223 made its debut there when my Dad decided packing around a Ruger #1 in .25-06 seemed of a bit more burden than his newly acquired Interarms Mini-Mauser. It became his primary big game rifle (he was out of the Elk business by then) for the rest of his life.Great info here. This subject intrigues me. I'm not a hunter (right now). That's not saying I won't have to become one in the eventual shtf situation where I can't buy my hamburger and chicken at Freddie's anymore..
My interest lies in defensive AR..marksmanship, bullseye targets out to 300yards..so my only experience with a rifle is 5.56 (either 55gr M193 or 62gr M855..that's all I shoot..and only 5.56 nato..not .223.
I've heard alot of hunters cast shade on the .223/5.56 as 'just a .22'..as if it wont kill..which I find amusing.
So I guess I have this question..how deadly would the 5.56 be when it comes to deer/small game hunting, and what is the average, realistic hunting range you guys engage at. 600 yards seems to be a bit of high fish story. I'm really curious.
"Best" for what? (That's a short version of what @lucusloc was getting at, I think).You could break it down by application, thats fine.
Its possible there is a general best weight for a cartridge, its just a theory but it might be more of a best weight for an individual rifles barrel harmonics.
Seems like most people shoot 55gn in 223 for example, 123gn in 6.5, 150gn in 308...?
Game I have taken with a 5.56 and a M16 series / CAR-15 / M4....So I guess I have this question..how deadly would the 5.56 be when it comes to deer/small game hunting
I guess if in general it would be accuracy precision."Best" for what? (That's a short version of what @lucusloc was getting at, I think).
Even with the same gun (same twist, etc.etc.etc,) "best" bullet for accuracy might not be "best" for energy retention. "Best" for penetration might not be "best" for accuracy.
As to popularity ("most people shoot..."), the 130gr bullet is by far the most popular bullet in the .270 Win. But it is "light" for the caliber when one looks at the general weights of the popular bullets in other calibers. Same with the 150g weight in the .30-06. They are popular because they kill very well ("best"), despite not being "best" for sectional density and ballistic coefficient.
(By the way, the 123gr bullet is only "popular" in the recent fad 6.5mm cartridges. The generally popular 6.5 bullet weight for a Swede, 260 Rem, 264 Win is 140gr, and this illustrates again that the 130gr is "light" for a .270.)
One reason is cost and availability. 55gr was/is military standard and there is a lot of it on the market. Who cares if it not optimal for a specific task if it is optimal for your wallet (another variable I did not even consider in my first post, but may be highly relevant to many people). This is also how other sub-optimal factory loads become standard; manufacturers have many bullets of one weight (possible for another cartridge entirely) and load up a new cartridge with the old bullet stock and vola! new super popular loading that ignores all the optimizations of the new cartridge. A huge amount of stuff just boils down to basic economics before anything else even gets considered.I guess if in general it would be accuracy precision.
"best" for hunting might be different.
If whats most popular isnt the best then why do people choose it?
its just a theory.
Yep. works on rabbit too.Game I have taken with a 5.56 and a M16 series / CAR-15 / M4....
Deer , feral sheep , javelina and rabbit.
5.56 / .223 with a proper hunting bullet makes for a excellent hunting cartridge.
And yes...I was using proper hunting cartridges...not the FMJ ammo I was issued.
Andy
One reason is cost and availability. 55gr was/is military standard and there is a lot of it on the market. Who cares if it not optimal for a specific task if it is optimal for your wallet (another variable I did not even consider in my first post, but may be highly relevant to many people). This is also how other sub-optimal factory loads become standard; manufacturers have many bullets of one weight (possible for another cartridge entirely) and load up a new cartridge with the old bullet stock and vola! new super popular loading that ignores all the optimizations of the new cartridge. A huge amount of stuff just boils down to basic economics before anything else even gets considered.
Heh..your uniform looks just like my dads OD greens he wore back in '67/'68..brownwater navy pbr and mike boat driver in nam.