Poll: Why not a gun for every citizen?

[Ownerus]

When I was a kid in the '50s, we played with toy guns and no neighbor called the police, Cowboys were heroes on TV, hunting was a normal and respected activity. It changed. Quickly. It can change back. I think quicker than we realize if we "come out of the closet" so to speak (and I'm as guilty as any on that account for reasons of not wanting to be a target in a world where a man with more than 3 guns has an "arsenal" and gets turned into an object of revulsion and fear by the ministry of propaganda)

I think the education angle could be a great way to start that change back. Granted, there will be a LOT of resistance from the same clowns who brought us here but I sense they've overplayed their hand. Maybe now is the time.

 

[SlimPickins]

When I was a kid in the '50s, we played with toy guns and no neighbor called the police, Cowboys were heroes on TV, hunting was a normal and respected activity. It changed. Quickly. It can change back. I think quicker than we realize if we "come out of the closet" so to speak (and I'm as guilty as any on that account for reasons of not wanting to be a target in a world where a man with more than 3 guns has an "arsenal" and gets turned into an object of revulsion and fear by the ministry of propaganda)

I think the education angle could be a great way to start that change back. Granted, there will be a LOT of resistance from the same clowns who brought us here but I sense they've overplayed their hand. Maybe now is the time.

Agreed!

 

[Ownerus]

I believe if you sign up and enlist into the US military you get a free gun.....,.

Yeah but you don't get to keep it and take it home

 

[E4mafia]

Yeah but you don't get to keep it and take it home

Where is it. I think Switzerland allows that and their gun crime is rather low. Theres a prospect.

Though im not sure if I would want to keep a surplus GI budget M4. Ours werent in the best conditions and after a life time of combat, while the platform holds up, many joe butterfingers handling have often led to missing parts, broken parts and general neglect and then it gets held in a big vault that requires 3 guys from the barracks to sit and watch with a knife if the power goes out. At least thats how it was in ours from a Infantry barracks. Bonus points if an Armorer ends up ETS'ing and a weapon goes missing and you spend 3 days tearing apart the entire company trying to find say government provided equipment. :^)

Besides the civilian marketplace offers better more affordable options to the firearms market vs standard GI. Trust me government bubblegum works about 30% of the time and is usually costly. So id rather not have them issuing me a personal firearm when I can get a decent AR from PSA for about $500 and a pistol the same range of my own choice. Its not hard to budget and buy your own supplies and not have to worry about mandatory inspections from NCOs every other day or everytime you go to the range and get a brass shake down. No thanks! Been there done that.

What would be nice is if schools brought back outdoor clubs and taught firearms safety using airguns or something much like how they used to encourage long ago, im sure some old birds can chime in and correct me on that. I think that would be a better step provided they were interested. We got options in modern times. Its about how people use'em.

 

[OldBroad44]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Not everyone wants a gun.

There are plenty of flakes out there who would not handle a gun safely or responsibly. There are, for example, lots of people who drive drunk. They would likely also carry drunk.

People who are seriously depressed or suicidal are more likely to live if they don't have easy access to a gun.

Many of us learn from our parents, and get many hundreds of hours of training not only in firearms handling but also in responsible and legal use of lethal force in self defense. If you come to adulthood without that, you need to make arrangements to get that that training along with the gun. That takes a lot of instruction. Handing guns out to ignorant people without that training would be a mistake. When someone has made the private personal decision to get a gun, they are more likely to get the training than if the government just gives them one when they aren't necessarily even interested.

I'm not in favor of the government doing things for people that they can do better themselves. The government would probably give everyone the same gun, which probably wouldn't fit the hands of many or be the preference of most.

The market is the perfect mechanism for providing a simple individually chosen product to individuals. I prefer to have government do the things that cannot be more efficiently handled by markets.

Those guns would undoubtedly all be registered.

 

[Kruel J]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Not everyone wants a gun.

There are plenty of flakes out there who would not handle a gun safely or responsibly. There are, for example, lots of people who drive drunk. They would likely also carry drunk.

People who are seriously depressed or suicidal are more likely to live if they don't have easy access to a gun.

Many of us learn from our parents, and get many hundreds of hours of training not only in firearms handling but also in responsible and legal use of lethal force in self defense. If you come to adulthood without that, you need to make arrangements to get that that training along with the gun. That takes a lot of instruction. Handing guns out to ignorant people without that training would be a mistake. When someone has made the private personal decision to get a gun, they are more likely to get the training than if the government just gives them one when they aren't necessarily even interested.

I'm not in favor of the government doing things for people that they can do better themselves. The government would probably give everyone the same gun, which probably wouldn't fit the hands of many or be the preference of most.

The market is the perfect mechanism for providing a simple individually chosen product to individuals. I prefer to have government do the things that cannot be more efficiently handled by markets.

Those guns would undoubtedly all be registered.

THIS!

 

[Doublesunder]

I can't tell Loan from Lem of this thread !!

 

[Boboclown]

I personally don't want a government provided gun. Talk about national registration.

I wouldn't want one either. I might get a gun made by I.O. Don't think my health insurance covers that.

 

[po18guy]

There was a SF comic strip named Travels with Farley. One week had him riding on a bus. Suddenly a guy jumps up, pulls a gun and yells, "Nobody move! I have a gun!" All passengers, including a grandma, had expressions of shock and horror on their faces. Next pane, they had all pulled their own guns, shouting, "So do we! So, sit down!" That last pane was the guy sitting with a dejected expression on his face.

'Nuff said.

 

[Kruel J]

There was a SF comic strip named Travels with Farley. One week had him riding on a bus. Suddenly a guy jumps up, pulls a gun and yells, "Nobody move! I have a gun!" All passengers, including a grandma, had expressions of shock and horror on their faces. Next pane, they had all pulled their own guns, shouting, "So do we! So, sit down!" That last pane was the guy sitting with a dejected expression on his face.

'Nuff said.

I clicked on the links in your signature. I've got your six, brother. It ain't over til..... Just know NWFA has your back!

 

[po18guy]

I clicked on the links in your signature. I've got your six, brother. It ain't over til..... Just know NWFA has your back!

Thank you very much! It is another brotherhood, so to speak. For anyone who is diagnosed or otherwise affected by cancer, the forum is a great place for support and occasionally, life-extending or even life-saving advice.

 

[Kruel J]

Thank you very much! It is another brotherhood, so to speak. for anyone who is diagnosed or otherwise affected by cancer, the forum is a great place for support and occasionally, life-extending or even life-saving advice.

My grandfather passed from colon cancer. My dad beat prostate cancer. I'm 43, and thus far I have no battles. But my hat's off to you sir.

 

[OldBroad44]

The basic idea of more access to training for the young is helpful. I think it has to be voluntary. And I think the government should not be involved. My older sister was able to take shooting as an extracurricular activities in high school in suburban/urban Massachusetts, of all places. The program even provided the .22 rifles.

If there were shooting classes or clubs as an extracurricular activities in all high schools, that might allow many more to get training, and even more to think of guns and shooting as an ordinary recreation and skill instead of feeling fearful and freaky about it. Even those not involved would hear their fellow students talking about it and see them showing off their targets. And everyone would learn that the shooters were ordinary kids, not nutters of some sort. The very anti-gun parents might prevent their kids from being involved. But the kid who wanted to be involved could say, "Look. I'm going to get a gun once I'm old enough and are out on my own. Wouldn't you prefer me to have this training?"

I think if every high school had shooting as an extracurricular activity, it might make a real difference.

Anybody know whether any high schools in the NW have shooting classes or clubs, and if so, who organizes and runs them?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Let us look to the 2nd Amendment's full text.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

Knowing the historians and the experts here...it can be agreed among most here what it means.

Well-regulated meaning well equipped and trained

Militia being the able bodied men (and possibly women in modern theory) of age and sound mind to serve, either Organized militias (National/State Militias) or Unorganized Militia (the whole of the people)-
being necessary to keep a Free State- to be able to defend the Nation, from enemies both foreign and domestic, up to, and including the government's Standing Armies (the Founders had just won a war against a Government's Standing Army with militias), only in very extreme circumstances (as provided by the Declaration of Independence)

Here, we see that the idea at the time was to NOT have a standing army, because of the fear that Government would use lethal force against the citizens, a fear that has actually been realized several times over the history of the United States in small fights/events. (See Waco, Ruby Ridge, Lavoy Finicums death, among others lost to revisionist history)

The right of the people to keep and bear arms (doesn't say only military arms, or firearms, or firearms in common use, despite what many politicians want it to say)

So, it sounds like on the face of it, government should at the minimum, provide the training, and importantly, allow the private purchase of equipment the citizen deems necessary, by not restricting sale or production of such equipment....except for the thing of the NFA and GCAs of 1934, 1968, FOPA, and a various other smaller laws in States.

I believe it was understood at the time of the Revolution, that arms were generally privately purchased by the majority of the militia members, as well as the necessary equipment and uniforms, the latter that which the US Military branches still practice, and the former that most Police Departments still practice (privately purchased carry guns/allowance for purchase of approved guns)

I do not agree that it should be mandated that every citizen should be given money (from who?) or guns (again, with money from whom?) and expected to attend a training school curriculum, without taking into consideration that as mentioned, people may not want to be involved, and I did not see this mentioned other than the schizophrenic comment, some people may not be mentally/physically able to utilize firearms.

I do however agree that communities should push for more firearms safety education on a community basis, perhaps as extracurricular elective, as provided by the NRA's Eddie Eagle program?

Were it up to me, I would push real hard to open the Pentagon's 1033 program (military surplus vehicle AND arms sales to LEOs) to US Citizens, not just LEO/LEAs, perhaps integrating the arms portion of 1033 into the CMP agency? Of course, this would also mean the repealing of the NFA/GCA/FOPA laws.

 

[po18guy]

My grandfather passed from colon cancer. My dad beat prostate cancer. I'm 43, and thus far I have no battles. But my hat's off to you sir.

Along with Warren Zevon, I consider myself to be "Mr. Bad Example." I have found that no struggle comes without the grace to bear it.

 

[po18guy]

Let us look to the 2nd Amendment's full text.
Knowing the historians and the experts here...it can be agreed among most here what it means.
Well-regulated meaning well equipped and trained

The fear at the time was that of a standing army. Caesar or King George III, what's the difference? Enslavement of the populace is frustrated by an armed citizenry - the founders well knew this.

I thank God that the Supreme Court has found the 2nd to be an individual right. For our generation, of course, but also for posterity.

 

[Diamondback]

Hell, with how many M4's we just throw away as scrapmetal every year, why not remanufacture them onto semi-only lowers with new barrels as part of a Subsidized Homeland Defense Rifle program? Also, the remanufacturing program would create jobs which could be offered to Service Disabled Veterans as Vocational Rehab...

Then again, this is how I would teach gun safety, marksmanship and STEM if I were calling the shots... all of these are caveated "except for conscientious objectors or the mentally/morally unfit; the physically challenged shall participate to the extent possible with reasonable accommodations."

• Basic Gun Safety every year in Health Class. If we can teach kindergartners about taking it up the arse, surely the Four Rules shouldn't be controversial?
• Sometime in high-school: Shop Class - assemble a semiauto 16" M4 from Military Surplus parts. This rifle goes home with you, and will follow you to the next course.
• Upon graduation: Off to Boot Camp. Nobody will be required to serve, but everyone who can will go through Basic Training and Basic Rifle Qualification. Upon completion, you go home with your rifle, a full combat load of loaded mags in carrier, and a 1000-round case of ammo.
• Participation in approved Training/Education activities with those thousand rounds will see them replaced, at up to 1000 rounds every two years.

 

[Goosebrown]

If people want guns they can get them. Government shouldn't hand them out any more than they should require you to vote or go to church.

 

[Diamondback]

Of course, under my prior proposal upon completing Basic you ALWAYS would have the option to decline to keep your rifle and turn it in for reprocessing and reassembly by somebody else...

 

[Flymph]

Sounds like mandatory enlistment in the military, which has it's ups and downs...
If they're handing out free guns, sure i'll take one. However I buy a firearm with my tax return, and I always say thanks to Uncle Sam while I am going home with it.