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You sound like you have some background in product management ;). And your points are valid, yes. But the companies still manage to crank out variations of guns with different sights, safety/no safety, coatings, barrels, optics/no optics, etc. So some complexity is there already. Mags are usually produced by a third party supplier (Meggar, for example), so the engineering costs can be absorbed in part by them. Yes, converting mags that were originally designed for more rounds can lead to problems, but we see lots of good 10 round mags from Sig, CZ, Glock, so this is not insurmountable. One idea: for fewer SKUs, offer a base package with no magazines and include coupons for your state's magazines to be drop shipped directly to the customer. They do it with various red dot plates now. Retail shops probably won't like it, but they can stock the necessary magazines and sell them with the guns they order. And while we are it, let's push for more interchangeable magazines, yes?
The magazine and how it interfaces with the firearm is the single most complex and error-prone mechanism of semi-autos. Gun Jesus talks about this at length, particularly in his discussions about one-off and prototype arms manufacturing. On top of that, arms manufacturers work under some of the tightest tolerances possible. A mechanical device that works well 99% of the time is generally thought to be pretty good, but when your life depends on it suddenly 99% isn't good enough. With guns if it doesn't go bang EVERY time without fail over thousands of rounds, some will say it's not reliable, and lack of reliability will kill a gun company's reputation faster than anything else. So a lot rides on the magazine.

Some of those 3rd parties do well, and others have had their reputations ruined. ProMag is a great example - they make mags for damn near everything, and have a terrible reputation in the industry because their mags don't always run right. Magpul, on the other hand, seems to have landed the aftermarket mag game pretty well. MecGar is another one.

So it's definitely possible, but it's the same problems as with the gun manufacturer. Those 3rd party companies now have to invest their time, money, and resources tooling up to produce a line of mags that might or might not sell well. It's a pretty hefty gamble, particularly because overall sales info is not publicly available. Nobody can tell you, a private citizen, how well CZs are selling in California. Without that data, you're simply guessing and hoping your mags sell in a very specific market.

As for selling a gun without magazines, I don't think they legally can due to consumer protection laws. Semi autos require a magazine in order to function, so selling a firearm without a magazine is selling an incomplete product.

I think there are a lot of opportunities that firearm and aftermarket parts manufacturers are missing out on, but that's just how it rolls. Best thing you can do is contact those companies and make your wants known. Maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't, but they can't solve a problem if nobody tells them about it.
 
They don't need them. More SKUs, more overhead, more headache, not worth the minimal return.
I dont know about that... There is no 'minimal return' on a $40 piece of sheet metal and plastic

Its not like a 10rnd mag is any cheaper than standard

Bottom line is that they dont give a bubblegum about you. They faceless corporations designed to maximize profits NOT defend rights or make sure the people have access to the best weapons possible.

Innovation is expensive. Just make what everyone else is making and play it safe.

Same reason a Camry looks like an Accord is the same reason that the Hellcat looks like the P365

It would be great if mfgs would innovate and introduce guns to get around bans... We could have Mini 14/30 if Ruger would just offer them without the barrel shroud, thats a simple one, but they won't do it because they dont give a bubblegum

Or ANYONE could make a semi auto rifle thats ban-proof with just a crowned barrel an internal mag....
 
I dont know about that... There is no 'minimal return' on a $40 piece of sheet metal and plastic

Its not like a 10rnd mag is any cheaper than standard

Bottom line is that they dont give a bubblegum about you. They faceless corporations designed to maximize profits NOT defend rights or make sure the people have access to the best weapons possible.

Innovation is expensive. Just make what everyone else is making and play it safe.

Same reason a Camry looks like an Accord is the same reason that the Hellcat looks like the P365

It would be great if mfgs would innovate and introduce guns to get around bans... We could have Mini 14/30 if Ruger would just offer them without the barrel shroud, thats a simple one, but they won't do it because they dont give a bubblegum

Or ANYONE could make a semi auto rifle thats ban-proof with just a crowned barrel an internal mag....
Good points. Major corporations can fail to see things. Just because of how they are set up and structured. I get it.
So why does Glock do it? Why do they care? They are not afraid, because they are so tied to all the local law enforcement?
And while major corporations abandon us, there could be a niche for Turkish, Italian, ex-Yugoslav manufacturers...some of which are still family shops. Just saying.
Wish we could invite a few factory reps/senior people for a virtual townhall here. Even anonymously. :)
 
You may be right, I don't own Glocks, so I just don't know. But I can see pretty much every Glock imaginable available at gun shops in Washington state. So somehow they figured it out.
Magpuls cashed in on the market your asking about, for Glocks. A brilliant move considering Glocks popularity.

Personally, I wish all the gun makers would just standardize all magazines around Glock mags.
 
I dont know about that... There is no 'minimal return' on a $40 piece of sheet metal and plastic

Its not like a 10rnd mag is any cheaper than standard

Bottom line is that they dont give a bubblegum about you. They faceless corporations designed to maximize profits NOT defend rights or make sure the people have access to the best weapons possible.

Innovation is expensive. Just make what everyone else is making and play it safe.

Same reason a Camry looks like an Accord is the same reason that the Hellcat looks like the P365

It would be great if mfgs would innovate and introduce guns to get around bans... We could have Mini 14/30 if Ruger would just offer them without the barrel shroud, thats a simple one, but they won't do it because they dont give a bubblegum

Or ANYONE could make a semi auto rifle thats ban-proof with just a crowned barrel an internal mag....
I could care less about bans….. so this means nothing to me.

This is like complaining about the manufacturers/retailers that don't ship items to certain states. Even though legally they could. I don't blame them one bit.
 
The handgun market is super competitive. The US is clearly the largest market in the world. Yet, nearly half the people in this country live in magazine restricted states. Why then so few manufacturers offer 10 rd versions of their products? I understand supply chains, wanting to have less product versions, etc. But why walk away from huge markets? You can buy pretty much any Glock in WA with a 10 rd magazine, but not every Sig, Springfield, S&W to name some larger ones. @Sporting Systems, what do the factory reps say about this?

not on "approved lists" in MA and CA
I would guess this is a big part of it. In the most populous state with a magazine ban it's not legal to buy most pistols normally (with some exceptions) even if they come with a 10 round magazine. If manufacturers added a limited capacity model that possible market of 120 million or whatever might only be 80 million at most, and probably a tiny fraction of that once you exclude children, felons, people that wouldn't be interested in the product, etc. Anything with a threaded barrel would be banned from even more of those 10 round states. Manufacturers/importers may just consider it effort that would be better spent elsewhere even if there's some money to be made in the other states.

Rant:
They may also be worried about the unfortunate possibility (certainty) that more states will continue to follow in california's steps and go even further beyond just banning magazines. We and the politicians behind the rosters, magazine bans, etc. know it's not constitutional but I think the likelihood of the supreme court ever giving a favorable ruling and those states listening to that ruling are slim. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I refuse to believe good news until there's actual good news.
 
that possible market of 120 million or whatever might only be 80 million at most, and probably a tiny fraction of that once you exclude children, felons, people that wouldn't be interested in the product, etc. Anything with a threaded barrel would be banned from even more of those 10 round states. Manufacturers/importers may just consider it effort that would be better spent elsewhere even if there's some money to be made in the other states.

Rant:
They may also be worried about the unfortunate possibility (certainty) that more states will continue to follow in california's steps and go even further beyond just banning magazines. We and the politicians behind the rosters, magazine bans, etc. know it's not constitutional but I think the likelihood of the supreme court ever giving a favorable ruling and those states listening to that ruling are slim. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I refuse to believe good news until there's actual good news.
Ok, the German population is just above 80 million and less than 1 million own guns. I don't see the manufacturers giving up on the German market. They go to all their shows, etc. The Czech Republic has a higher rate of gun ownership, but the country itself is 10 million people. It's not only CZ selling there.
It would be good if manufacturers started to deal with the US as a collection of states rather than a single country.
On your rant - you may be right. It's certainly their stated goal.
 
I could care less about bans….. so this means nothing to me.

This is like complaining about the manufacturers/retailers that don't ship items to certain states. Even though legally they could. I don't blame them one bit.
Could you?

Well, thats all good... you dont have to care about the ban and you dont have to comply with it.

But the ban cares about you... and it will do all it can to prevent you from buying bubblegum.

So your local gun store or the larger online retailers, big box stores, etc.... they are not going to sell you these banned items. So in the end, your compliance is not required.

Think your fellow gun owners are going to stick their necks out for you? No. I have bought two handguns since this bubblegum went down... without bubbleguming mags. So there it is. Other private parties arent going to risk it, your FFL wont either.

All we do is bubblegum about it, because its all we can do... vote harder next time I guess
 
Instead of them making 10rounders they should stop selling standard mags to the police in ban states.
This is it right here.

The state has monopoly on violence... but the weapons industry has THEM by the balls.

If they all got together and refused to do business with states or localities than enacted bans, we would see if change real fast.

Like Barrett back when Cali banned the 50cal, Barrett refused any further service or sales to all LEO in the state. I don't know if it cost him all that much, but it was a bold move. I don't know if he cucked and continued dealing with CA or not.

This is where the power lies. The government doesn't make guns or ammunition, its contracted to the private sector.

But, its not going to happen, we are a capitalist society and refusing government contracts is bad for the bottom line... so the gun industry, as I said before, doesnt give a bubblegum.
 
Could you?

Well, thats all good... you dont have to care about the ban and you dont have to comply with it.

But the ban cares about you... and it will do all it can to prevent you from buying bubblegum.

So your local gun store or the larger online retailers, big box stores, etc.... they are not going to sell you these banned items. So in the end, your compliance is not required.

Think your fellow gun owners are going to stick their necks out for you? No. I have bought two handguns since this bubblegum went down... without bubbleguming mags. So there it is. Other private parties arent going to risk it, your FFL wont either.

All we do is bubblegum about it, because its all we can do... vote harder next time I guess
Primary, secondary and tertiary plans. I'm set.

Thanks though.
 
Money trumps morals/ethics 99% of the time. I hate it. But it's the truth.
touche.

Except look at the gun industry in prohibition countries that dont have or nearly have the private gun market we do. Mfgs are shooting themselves in their own foot by catering to ban states.
 

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