Why is .25acp so crappy?

[Partsproduction]

After contributing to this thread last night I realized that reloading the .25 ACP is something I want to do. But alas! I can't find any projectiles. I'm looking for 50 grain FMJ, the best possibility of reaching the vitals even though I don't carry for self defense. They should be cheaper than JHP if I can find any. If anyone knows of a source I'd sure love to hear about it.

 

[larryh1108]

here's a link to gunbrokers for .25 50gr. There's probably more.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=157250966

 

[Partsproduction]

Tonight I popped off a few .22 shorts from an Astra Cub, and .25 ACP's from another Cub, at a UHMW (Polyethylene) disc hanging from my trap. The trap is made of 3/16" thick T-1 and can take any pistol round, but not to worry! These weren't in the running for the dent competition.
The disc is 3 1/2" diameter X 2" thick, and in the one closeup you can see the .22 shorts sticking out of the surface. I was shooting away from 28 feet and felt something hit my belly, it was one of the .22 Shorts next to the guns. They turn into little mushroom heads when they hit the UHMW! Some bounced off and hit me, but didn't hurt. I also found the three .25 ACP bullets laying in front of the trap.
Just for the record, that UHMW will not only stop a hot 10MM but they only go half way through, good armor.

 

[Rix]

a .25 for self defense is a whole different strategy......
you have to be close (bad), aim for the face and empty it.

 

[MountainBear]

Why don't you give some actual physical data to support those claims? People have a tendency to assume things rather than actually trying to get data. God forbid the data doesn't support their claims.

Besides, if I pull my .25, its because I've either already emptied my .45 or am wearing a suit and cannot conceal a larger gun. In that case, the .25 is better than nothing...

 

[Partsproduction]

BTW, last night I shot that UHMW disc with my PPK/S .380, one of those rounds also bounced of and was laying on the floor! It was shorter and fatter than when it left the barrel but basically looked almost unfired. I'm all for UHMW body armor!

 

[parallax]

careful, that .25 could leave a nasty bruise on someone.
i apologies, i could not help myself. really, every caliber will have people telling ya there is something better, or why they dont think its good,, but hey,, they all have there place.

 

[litesong]

You dissing my Raven??!!
Well, I'd take it over a sharp stick or rock any day. In well over 1000 rounds down range it has yet to fail me. It may be ugly but it is solid and I can hit a 6" grouping at 30' with it which is not bad with the short barrel. Is this a primary carry piece? Only if you have no other options. i would (and have) bet my life on it. If I recall properly, I believe the .25ACP has caused more deaths than any other caliber. It may have been passed in recent years but in the 70s and before, the Saturday Night Special was the weapon of choice for the gang bangers and n'er do wells. It can and will kill, don't kid yourselves. If you can hit what you aim at it can be an effective SD gun. I mean, look at the quality craftmanship! The wood grips set it off and it is just a nice little gun!

If you're so sure it won't do the job then volunteer to hold an apple in your mouth for me at 25' and let's see how good I am with it!

Evaluating factory 25ACP ammo, the 25 ACP pistol becomes a different animal when handloaded. Factory loads are loaded sometimes to less than 50fpe in deference to 'many of the junk 25 autos'. Many people consider the 25 auto Raven to junk. Handloaders have developed superb (very hot) loads for the 25 ACP, tho. My initial low power development handloads were inaccurate, unreliable & as many here have said, weak-kneed. As I approached max. reloads, my Ravens became progressively accurate, very reliable & powerful. The Ravens performed so well, I (& other handloaders) went past so called max loads. Both my Ravens loved the hot loads that approach 90+fpe. Unique powder worked superbly, tho Bullseye was not good.

I used to shoot the Beeman pellet guns with muzzle velocities of 800 f/s. Always thought, if I accidently shot someone in the neck with a pellet, the person would be in trouble (& not just if a vein was hit). The hot loaded 25 ACP has almost 7 times the pellet guns energy! Two 25ACP shots to the face & neck would be like 13 or 14 pellets from the air rifle. Any shooting victim would be in very bad condition or no condition at all because they would be dead. Few 90 fpe bullets will bounce off anyone's skull. The one's that might, will transfer a lot of death dealing energy to the skull. With both my Ravens in my pocket, I felt.....protected. The guys at the gravel pits always wanted to know about my Ravens when they heard their authoritative barks.

Accuracy----I often set up 22 caliber empties & tho I wasn't a great offhand shot, at 5 yards distance, I could hit the empties about half the time, often sending them spinning & whirring off into the distance.

 

[Partsproduction]

Just don't shoot the empty .25 hulls! I found it so enjoyable shooting my Astra Cub that I can't convey it, easily as much fun as any other gun, I think it's because the accuracy was so surprising to me in view of the reputation, and the fact that the Astra has good sights though fixed (Ha! Adjustable target sights on a .25!) As noted I didn't do as good with the guttersnipe type sights on other .25's. I enjoy it more also because it goes off every time and doesn't jam or fail to go off like the .22 LR I also shoot.

 

[litesong]

Just don't shoot the empty .25 hulls!

Wouldn't shoot 25 acp shells....because they are too big! Dead-eye Dick speaking.

Besides, we reloaders need them. Started thinking of reloading again after getting out of shooting entirely for many years. Luckily, have found hundreds of 40S&W & 223 on the Sultan Basin Rd, but the gov't is trying to stop all shooting up there. Anyone know where I can search for 25acp, 32acp, 380. Really need to find some 10mm brass?
Does anyone like the 32NAA & 25NAA cartridges? Besides North American Arms themselves, does any other manufacturer chamber for the NAA cartridges. Any one know if Ruger LCP or Kel Tec will chamber for the NAA cartridges?

 

[Rix]

ask this guy if the .25 acp is no big deal to be shot by ->>
*warning graphic photo at bottom of the page
<broken link removed>

Yep.... he probably stopped.

 

[MountainBear]

I bought another crappy .25 ACP today. I just hope everyone else keeps leaving them alone. I'm now into a Beretta and a CZ both for less that $230 for the pair. Gotta love mouse guns...

 

[Partsproduction]

Yeah, it's madness, I just bid on one too. I can hardly wait to get into loading for them.

 

[MountainBear]

I need a colt 1908 vest pocket to go with my Model 1945 CZ and my Beretta 950...

 

[AIRASSAULT18B]

I saw a report during the DC snow storm of a police officer being shot with a 25cal & the bullets were stuck in the outside layer of his jacket. I had to put down some raccoons & my son had a 25cal jennings & he emptied a magazine into the skull of one rather large coon & it would not penetrate its skull.He just looked a little dazed. I put one shot of 22lr & he nosedived . Bullet entered but did not exit. I put another just to be sure. First 22 was probably enough. Second coon at a later date we used a 380 on a headshot & it went through the skull expanding at least to 40cal. No followup shot needed. You decide what is most effective.

 

[MountainBear]

Yawn. The arguments are starting to get repetitive. At least this guy added his own experience whacking raccoons to his "I once heard or read" story about people shot with the .25 ACP. That seems to be anyone has to dismiss the .25, I once heard or I once read. Like I said before, I'll keep mine and be happy. If I need to pull it out, I'm probably going to get eaten by zombies anyway, as they would have already survived or outnumbered three clips from my .45 ACP Glock...

 

[AIRASSAULT18B]

I may be wrong but most of the time when 22lr is compared to a .25 acp the guns aren't equal. Most peoples 22lr to compare is not a mousegun. The 22 was a Taurus compact with 2-3/4 in barrel

 

[Contract_Pilot]

I Have a R.G.INDUSTRIES MODEL RG-42 in .25 Purchased from a member of the forum for a real reasonable price with no mag.. I had someone send me a loaner mag and with a couple tools was able to resurrect the little .25 to a reliable firearm.

200 Rounds not 1 Jam not one FTF It's a pocket firearm for when I cannot have my M&P .45 on me sure is way more reliable then any little .22 rim fire I have had.

Now if only I can find a mag for under $30.00 hahahah.

 

[tionico]

Hmmm.. I've been dissuaded from even considering the .25 ACP based on the common "mousegun" epithets.... now some of you guys have me reconsidering. I've seen a few Baby Brownings, and already have a definite soft spot for anything from the Browning works.... I may well have to keep my eyes peeled for a good Baby Browning. I was particularly interested in the handloading reports..... hot loads in a mousegun, eh? Truly, the mouse that roared......

I can see how, with the greater mass and balance (all steel pistol, not the half-plastic featherweight typical today) would maybe give it a decided edge in accuracy and handling. We shall see.... I've another .45 ACP to bail out of a layaway first, though..... maybe then a Roaring Mouse will take up residence at my place.....

 

[Partsproduction]

This is how you use a mouse gun for self defense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGmwhXgV_xg&feature=fvw

Note that he says up top that the guns are not effective self defense weapons. But if you carry one for that he shows how to use it.

I'm not recommending this! The following could be dangerous in your gun.

In my Astra I've been loading 1.9 grains of Bullseye under a Gold Dot 35 grain bullet, that's about as much as I can boost it and still have good reliability. It may not work in a BB as the slides are possibly a tad lighter.

The standard load is 1.3 grains Bullseye under a 50 grain RN FMJ, which puts out about 780 FPS in my gun. My load is 1.6 grains under the 50 grain FMJ.

That little Astra is more accurate than my new Sig P-238, which doesn't surprise me because I've known for a long time that the Astra is accurate.

Much better than a BB is either an Astra or Budischowsky TP-70, both these guns have good sights. The BB is smaller though. Many of these guns don't have sights at all, and the way the video is showing their use they don't need them.

A bit of practice would be in order, one wouldn't want to have a follow up investigation finding that the strikes were three feet wide of the mark.