Why do noobs always use steel case first?

[Member 34319]

I run steel case in every thing on range day because its cheap, including in my 1911s.

I have heard the saying if it cant run steel it isn't worth the brass and I agree. If the SHTF happens and all you can find is steel case you better hope your gun runs it cuz that is a bad time to find out it will not.

I do have some very expensive guns from Colt ARs to BCM and so on and they all run it fine.
I do have brass case put away for a SHTF but will run steel at the range if its cheaper.
All my hand guns seem to run it fine as well.

Nothing wrong with this. I ran herters stuff for years when it was dirt cheap. I purposely put ARs together with the intention of running that stuff.

My original rant has more to do with those starting out. Those that buy 1000-1500 guns and skip on the ammo. It boggles me. It's like buying an above average car and putting the cheapest oil in it they could find.

Rant originated from taking a few noobs out shooting. New gun, new shooter. Daniel Defense AR, Gucci Leupold that likely cost more than the gun, all in a very nice pelican case with the foam all expertly cut out. Whips out a few boxes of steel case ammo and proceeds to have nothing but short stroke issues. It took a lot not to scold the guy. He was really attentive to all of my gun handling advice and safety procedures. I did ask him if other ammo was available, it was, I still dont get it. The guy blew some 3-4 thousand on the whole set up.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Nothing wrong with this. I ran herters stuff for years when it was dirt cheap. I purposely put ARs together with the intention of running that stuff.

My original rant has more to do with those starting out. Those that buy 1000-1500 guns and skip on the ammo. It boggles me. It's like buying an above average car and putting the cheapest oil in it they could find.

Rant originated from taking a few noobs out shooting. New gun, new shooter. Daniel Defense AR, Gucci Leupold that likely cost more than the gun, all in a very nice pelican case with the foam all expertly cut out. Whips out a few boxes of steel case ammo and proceeds to have nothing but short stroke issues. It took a lot not to scold the guy. He was really attentive to all of my gun handling advice and safety procedures. I did ask him if other ammo was available, it was, I still dont get it. The guy blew some 3-4 thousand on the whole set up.

When you shoot a three foot group with a $3000 rig you can blame the ammo.

 

[Member 3687]

My original rant has more to do with those starting out. Those that buy 1000-1500 guns and skip on the ammo. It boggles me. It's like buying an above average car and putting the cheapest oil in it they could find.

I understand and have seen it more than once as well.

To me the problem is not the ammo but the gun as many are designed to be top notch military grade guns and they are, but the problem is they do not have the military to supply them the military grade ammo and they do not like to run Russian steel case .223.

My issue is the firearms manufacture for not advertising it needs to run top notch 5.56 to be reliable and since most folks do not read the manual first to find out it may not run on steel case, as noobs they do not know.

So I feel your frustration but as noobs in my mind they got sold a gun that does not fulfill their needs but something the internet or a bad gun salesperson told them they had to have.

But like you said they are noobs and as noobs they will learn like the rest of had to, the hard way.

I do thank you for at least trying to explain to them what is going on but that is all you can do, they need to find out the rest on their own.

 

[DirectDrive]

They are more for to shoot tho , you gotta give me that. For uninterrupted mag dumps that is.

And you can play "A Team" with a Mini-14
You can't do that with an AR

 

[Koda]

My original rant has more to do with those starting out. Those that buy 1000-1500 guns and skip on the ammo. It boggles me. It's like buying an above average car and putting the cheapest oil in it they could find.

if they are new and spending good money it doesnt mean they even know what they are buying and why, it just means they are spending the most they can afford hoping to get the best. If they are that new, I would guess they dont know anything either about ammo, steel case is cheaper so my guess is many just think ammo is ammo or want to get their stockpile built up faster after spending more on the gun. Short version is I dont think they know steel case ammo is bad.

 

[Member 34319]

I understand and have seen it more than once as well.

To me the problem is not the ammo but the gun as many are designed to be top notch military grade guns and they are, but the problem is they do not have the military to supply them the military grade ammo and they do not like to run Russian steel case .223.

My issue is the firearms manufacture for not advertising it needs to run top notch 5.56 to be reliable and since most folks do not read the manual first to find out it may not run on steel case, as noobs they do not know.

So I feel your frustration but as noobs in my mind they got sold a gun that does not fulfill their needs but something the internet or a bad gun salesperson told them they had to have.

But like you said they are noobs and as noobs they will learn like the rest of had to, the hard way.

I do thank you for at least trying to explain to them what is going on but that is all you can do, they need to find out the rest on their own.

I do feel like he was sold on high end. He bought the ammo separately at another store on his own. Though why he would go cheap there boggled me.

I want to say it was a mid length and likely had a h2 buffer. Only the second Daniel Defense factory gun I've gotten to shoot, it was very nice. I totally understand why folks spend money on one. It however absolutely did not like that ammo.

 

[Member 34319]

if they are new and spending good money it doesnt mean they even know what they are buying and why, it just means they are spending the most they can afford hoping to get the best. If they are that new, I would guess they dont know anything either about ammo, steel case is cheaper so my guess is many just think ammo is ammo or want to get their stockpile built up faster after spending more on the gun. Short version is I dont think they know steel case ammo is bad.

You are probably right. My overbearing gun person personality might have been showing.

 

[Ops]

steel case is fine. maybe someone needs to run a quality piece

 

[Andy54Hawken]

It may be , because ammo is "disposable"* ...unlike a rifle which can be used over again.
So since steel cased ammo was at one time cheaper to buy...it made have made cents...err....sense.

*Yes I know about re-loading...but the OP is talkin' bout "noobs" here.
Andy

 

[Knobgoblin]

To the original point, Mr. Reno. They buy more than they can afford the care and feeding of because it looks cool. In the same vein as the kids who insist on having a wrx but never change the oil and run bald tires. Or the dude forcing his wife to drive a lifted dually as her daily, because he can't afford a $90k truck and a normal car for both of them.
Reach exceeding grasp is a common behavior of youth, or the inexperienced aficionado .

This behavior keeps the pipeline stocked with pre owned rifles. And I don't mind that.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

At various times...
I owned former Soviet era rifles and carbines...it made sense to use the ammo they were designed for.
If I still owned them..I'd still buy steel cased ammo.
Andy

 

[Knobgoblin]

I do feel like he was sold on high end. He bought the ammo separately at another store on his own. Though why he would go cheap there boggled me.

I want to say it was a mid length and likely had a h2 buffer. Only the second Daniel Defense factory gun I've gotten to shoot, it was very nice. I totally understand why folks spend money on one. It however absolutely did not like that ammo.

Daniel defense has a great advertising presence. And I hear their products are well built. Brand recognition is tried and true in America. I understand that if he had the money to spend, it wasn't a bad choice. But subsequent bad choices can negate the value of anything.

 

[raftman]

If it can't handle the steel, it doesn't deserve the brass.

 

[GWS]

Well, is it because it's cheap?

It certainly isn't more available, or at least in my experience.

Doesn't always have to be steel case either. Cheap remanufactured ammo also seems to come up a lot.

I'm confused at the concept and logic. It's not like this happens with cheap guns either, ironically those usually run steel case! No it's usually someone who just dropped 1k on a nice AR or a nice pistol and is like, mer gun don't werk!

I don't get it.

Well, it is cheap and that's important after that big outlay of cash to buy that first gun.
Also, for a long while steel case ammo was pretty much all that was available during the crunch. It was available primarily because most experienced shooters avoid it.

 

[Forester]

I had a coworker who bought German everything. BMW car and motorcycle, Braun shaver, Traeger barbecue grill, so on and so forth. You'd think him an "expert" driver and BBQ chef to hear him talk, until you rode or barbequed with him. When he heard that I owned a handgun, he asked me very enthusiastically, "Is it a Glock?!!". Do your research pal. And no, I never took him to the range.

Ummmm…….Traeger grill started in Silverton

 

[Member 3687]

I want to say it was a mid length and likely had a h2 buffer. Only the second Daniel Defense factory gun I've gotten to shoot, it was very nice. I totally understand why folks spend money on one. It however absolutely did not like that ammo.

Daniel Defense is a very good gun and inspects every part for quality, fit and finish but it is like a Ferrari and requires expensive gas, oil and maintenance. It will run great if fed the right ammo and usually is very accurate so when you read all the adds and look at the vids it should be the go to gun and many contractors use them so they are battle proven.

To me all that is great but I do not have a government or agency supplying me ammo that meets a certain spec so I would rather have a gun that is slightly over gassed to run everything. I also do not run full auto so the gas issue will not be a problem ever for me, but not running in a SHTF could be.

Many folks also feel that they just spent a ton of money on a gun that is supposed to be one of the best so it should run any ammo right, and in my opinion it should.
Its a battle field weapon so it should run in any condition on the battle field especially for that price.

I work in a shop and see it all the time folks look for the cheapest price and most days its steel case that is the cheapest but that will be changing soon as the new tax and 2 year hold on new imports of Russian ammo will slow the production and sale of the stuff.

So brass will be all we get as the steel runs out but remember there is cheap brass case ammo out there as well.

 

[P7M13]

Offer to trade.

 

[Nutty4Guns]

Ummmm…….Traeger grill started in Silverton

Thought it was Mt. Angel, no? Not that it really matters anyway. They're all made in China now anyway.

 

[Yarome]

A gun noob at least has a viable excuse. The ones that make me chuckle are the self proclaimed "preppers" that have 20k rounds per firearm. 18k of it is steel, 1.5k of brass target rounds (not sure how that misc brass got mixed in) and only .5k of semi-decent "defensive" rounds per... and not a single spare extractor, barrel, firing pin, etc... or enough CLP to last more than one full cleaning of each firearm in his arsenal.

On what I consider to be my long term defense and SHTF firearms, after break-in I'll always run a little steel for a bit and fine tune as needed for reliability, but then it's back to brass exclusively. The component and barrel wear just isn't worth it to me. Although, when steel was significantly cheaper than brass, it was easily arguable that shooting steel and dealing with premature component wear, or replaceing as needed, was still more cost effective... even with the 30%+ longer component life on brass.

I won't even go into the accuracy issue since that's universaly understood, hu!

That's probably why some militaries run steel and have a ready supply chain for components. Cost savings. On the flip side, that's probably why some militaries run brass. Longevity, reliability and accuracy for your personnel OVER cost savings.

That premise still holds if you still have piles of that cheap steel from "back when", but IMHO, buying steel "today", you're not saving a single cent... long term cost over the life of your firearm considered. Then again, if you won't blow through 5k on a gun in your lifetime... who cares if your posterity inherits a "loose shooter" or have to have it worked over by a gunsmith, right?

Somehow, it's just more mind boggling and humorous when it's folks that really SHOULD know better.

 

[Gbirk]

Steel case runs fine in all my ARs (granted I don't have any $3k ARs), so if it runs and is cheap why not? If I am just going out to have fun or shoot with buddies, why pay more per round than I have to? I have to admit though, I think my favorite gun to shoot right now is my moderized AK47 Vepr in 7.62x39. Shoots so nice, and cheap to feed. My ARs sit in the safe a lot now.

Also, I will let you in on a little seacret when going to the woods..........picking up your "brass" is super easy if you shoot steel case. Just bring a magnet on a stick.