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Pierce County is not Uber-blue. Tacoma and Gig Harbor are the blue influence in an otherwise red county.
I would agree with all the Military presence in Pierce County. Here in Spanaway, home owners are armed and not afraid to excercise their right to self defense. IE.....home owner kills an armed intruder at 4am kicking in his door.
 
Regarding https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2021-22/Pdf/Bills/House Bills/1705.pdf?q=20211231133309 -- this is the "ghost gun" *eyeroll* bill -- it appears that it targets the 80% community and given how hardheaded people are, will serve to only cause an evolution and expansion of the 0% community. This will have the unintended consequence of accelerating the acquisition of deeper and better in the DIY firearms sphere which will serve only to make firearms even less controllable than ever:

NEW SECTION. Sec. 6. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:

(1) After September 10, 2022, no person may knowingly or recklessly possess, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party possessing, transporting, or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a 17 serial number issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.

(2) No person may sell, offer to sell, transfer, or purchase an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party purchasing the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a serial number 24 issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.
Yeah it's bad.

NEW SECTION. Sec. 5. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:

(1) No person may manufacture, cause to be manufactured, assemble, or cause to be assembled an untraceable firearm. (2) After September 10, 2022, no person may knowingly or recklessly possess, transport, or receive an untraceable firearm, unless the party possessing, transporting, or receiving the untraceable firearm is a law enforcement agency or a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.
The exceptions don't help any 80%ers:
(3) No person may sell, offer to sell, transfer, or purchase an untraceable firearm.
(4) Subsections (2) and (3) of this section do not apply to any firearm that:
(a) Has been rendered permanently inoperable;
(b) Is an antique firearm, as defined in 18 U.S.C. Sec. 921(a)(16); or
(c) Was manufactured before 1968
80%ers made on or before July 1, 2019 are NOT "untraceable firearms so you'll get to keep those for now.

(41) "Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federal firearms manufacturer, federal firearms importer, or federal firearms dealer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations.
 
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Essentially a complete ban on 80% builds as I read it. Excuse me for a few, I have to go wipe my bottom with this.

Dan

NEW SECTION. Sec. 6. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:

(1) After September 10, 2022, no person may knowingly or recklessly possess, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party possessing, transporting, or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a 17 serial number issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.

(2) No person may sell, offer to sell, transfer, or purchase an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party purchasing the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a serial number 24 issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.
 
Essentially a complete ban on 80% builds as I read it. Excuse me for a few, I have to go wipe my bottom with this.

Dan

NEW SECTION. Sec. 6. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:

(1) After September 10, 2022, no person may knowingly or recklessly possess, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party possessing, transporting, or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a 17 serial number issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.

(2) No person may sell, offer to sell, transfer, or purchase an unfinished frame or receiver, unless: (a) The party purchasing the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer; or (b) the unfinished frame or receiver has been imprinted with a serial number 24 issued by a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.
Because I am in Idaho, none of this nonsense applies to me. Nonetheless, what is a 17 serial number and a serial number 24? Edit: While I am asking the preceding question, I'll ask another. When does some material become an "unfinished frame or receiver"?
 
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Because I am in Idaho, none of this nonsense applies to me. Nonetheless, what is a 17 serial number and a serial number 24? Edit: While I am asking the preceding question, I'll ask another. When does some material become an "unfinished frame or receiver"?
Those are line numbers that got left in the copy/paste. It becomes unfinished when they're digging the material out of the ground..:)
 
Those are line numbers that got left in the copy/paste. It becomes unfinished when they're digging the material out of the ground..:)
OK, so it appears that all that would be needed is a serial number applied by a FFL. But since an 80% unfinished frame or receiver is not a firearm, it would appear that federal laws and regulations applicable to FFLs and firearm serial numbers are not applicable to these unfinished items and the FFL could apply any combination of characters to comply with WA law. Yes? How about "Jay Inslee is an Idiot"? I see a business opportunity here. I get my FFL and offer to apply whatever the WA customer wants as his or her serial number to an 80% frame or receiver the WA resident has sent to me. These items never go into my book because they are not firearms. The WA customer gets an invoice for application of a "serial number" to his or her unfinished frame or receiver. Now because these items are not firearms, it also appears that the federal requirements regarding firearm serial numbers (name, location , model, caliber and depth of marking) would not be applicable and the FFL could comply with WA law by merely attaching a Post-it note to the unfinished frame or receiver.
 
OK, so it appears that all that would be needed is a serial number applied by a FFL. But since an 80% unfinished frame or receiver is not a firearm, it would appear that federal laws and regulations applicable to FFLs and firearm serial numbers are not applicable to these unfinished items and the FFL could apply any combination of characters to comply with WA law. Yes? How about "Jay Inslee is an Idiot"? I see a business opportunity here. I get my FFL and offer to apply whatever the WA customer wants as his or her serial number to an 80% frame or receiver the WA resident has sent to me. These items never go into my book because they are not firearms. The WA customer gets an invoice for application of a "serial number" to his or her unfinished frame or receiver. Now because these items are not firearms, it also appears that the federal requirements regarding firearm serial numbers (name, location , model, caliber and depth of marking) would not be applicable and the FFL could comply with WA law by merely attaching a Post-it note to the unfinished frame or receiver.
34TMYD1CKJ4Y-1, -2, -3...
 
This is the crap that's being pushed by ..I won't say what should be said with respect to this forum...

Washington state cannot afford to press pause on gun violence prevention. In the face of the continued challenges posed by the pandemic, a contentious political atmosphere, and record-levels of gun violence, the Alliance for Gun Responsibility is prioritizing protecting and building on our recent progress to support a comprehensive public health approach to preventing gun violence.

Click here for a downloadable copy of the agenda.

PROTECT PROGRESS AND CONTINUE MOMENTUM: The financial, social, and political reality of the continued health crisis means that it is more important than ever to protect and build on the strides we've made to prevent gun violence in Washington state. This includes closing dangerous loopholes, continuing to align victim protection processes, strengthening our Voluntary Waiver program, creating real accountability for the firearm industry, and increasing funding for public education and community intervention programs through the Office of Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention.

CLOSE DANGEROUS LOOPHOLES TO KEEP COMMUNITIES SAFE: Washington's comprehensive background check system helps keep firearms out of dangerous hands. Two important loopholes in the current system must be closed:
  • There are no limitations on access to high-capacity magazines—devices which make semi-automatic firearms extraordinarily deadly by allowing a shooter to fire a large number of bullets in a short period of time. Prohibiting sales of magazines that carry more than 10 rounds will help save lives by keeping these lethal accessories out of dangerous hands.
  • Ghost guns—untraceable, homemade firearms—allow people to circumvent background checks by purchasing components and assembling firearms at home. Current Washington law prohibits the manufacture, sale, or possession of undetectable firearms but doesn't address untraceable homemade guns. We must update existing law to close this deadly loophole.
PROTECT FREE SPEECH FROM FIREARM I NTIMIDATION: The open carrying of firearms in politically-charged or contentious environments greatly increases the possibility of deadly violence and produces a chilling effect on First Amendment rights to freedom of speech. In 2021, the legislature took a big step forward by prohibiting open carry at the Capitol, protests, and demonstrations. Extending this safeguard to public meetings, special polling places, and ballot counting locations is a commonsense step that will help reduce the risk of more political violence by firearm in Washington state.

PROTECT AND EXPAND COMMUNITY-BASED PROGRAMS AND PUBLIC EDUCATION: Washington has made notable progress in dedicating resources to community-based gun violence prevention work. We need to build on that progress by greatly expanding funding for the Office of Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention to ensure it can support on-the-ground work in communities most disproportionately impacted by gun violence. In addition, we need meaningful investments in public education efforts about safe storage practices and Extreme Risk Protection Orders and we must ensure our schools are an excellent source of information about the risks of firearms.

ESTABLISH REAL ACCOUNTABILITY: For years, federal law has shielded the gun industry—dealers and manufacturers—from nearly all accountability for the danger and damages their products cause. This means that the costs of gun violence are borne almost exclusively by victims and taxpayers. Creating real accountability for the gun industry by requiring microstamping and smart-gun technology and enabling accountability through Washington's Consumer Protection Act creates a path to hold the industry and gun owners to higher standards.

ADDRESS INEQUITABLE AND BIASED POLICING: Washington passed an historic package of police accountability legislation in 2021. Together, these bills make much-needed changes that will reduce police violence, increase accountability and transparency, set clear guidance for law enforcement, and improve access to justice. It is crucial that we protect, refine, and build on these policies in close collaboration with BIPOC communities to ensure they are working as intended.
 
This is the crap that's being pushed by ..I won't say what should be said with respect to this forum...

Washington state cannot afford to press pause on gun violence prevention. In the face of the continued challenges posed by the pandemic, a contentious political atmosphere, and record-levels of gun violence, the Alliance for Gun Responsibility is prioritizing protecting and building on our recent progress to support a comprehensive public health approach to preventing gun violence.

Click here for a downloadable copy of the agenda.

PROTECT PROGRESS AND CONTINUE MOMENTUM: The financial, social, and political reality of the continued health crisis means that it is more important than ever to protect and build on the strides we've made to prevent gun violence in Washington state. This includes closing dangerous loopholes, continuing to align victim protection processes, strengthening our Voluntary Waiver program, creating real accountability for the firearm industry, and increasing funding for public education and community intervention programs through the Office of Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention.

CLOSE DANGEROUS LOOPHOLES TO KEEP COMMUNITIES SAFE: Washington's comprehensive background check system helps keep firearms out of dangerous hands. Two important loopholes in the current system must be closed:
  • There are no limitations on access to high-capacity magazines—devices which make semi-automatic firearms extraordinarily deadly by allowing a shooter to fire a large number of bullets in a short period of time. Prohibiting sales of magazines that carry more than 10 rounds will help save lives by keeping these lethal accessories out of dangerous hands.
  • Ghost guns—untraceable, homemade firearms—allow people to circumvent background checks by purchasing components and assembling firearms at home. Current Washington law prohibits the manufacture, sale, or possession of undetectable firearms but doesn't address untraceable homemade guns. We must update existing law to close this deadly loophole.
PROTECT FREE SPEECH FROM FIREARM INTIMIDATION: The open carrying of firearms in politically-charged or contentious environments greatly increases the possibility of deadly violence and produces a chilling effect on First Amendment rights to freedom of speech. In 2021, the legislature took a big step forward by prohibiting open carry at the Capitol, protests, and demonstrations. Extending this safeguard to public meetings, special polling places, and ballot counting locations is a commonsense step that will help reduce the risk of more political violence by firearm in Washington state.

PROTECT AND EXPAND COMMUNITY-BASED PROGRAMS AND PUBLIC EDUCATION: Washington has made notable progress in dedicating resources to community-based gun violence prevention work. We need to build on that progress by greatly expanding funding for the Office of Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention to ensure it can support on-the-ground work in communities most disproportionately impacted by gun violence. In addition, we need meaningful investments in public education efforts about safe storage practices and Extreme Risk Protection Orders and we must ensure our schools are an excellent source of information about the risks of firearms.

ESTABLISH REAL ACCOUNTABILITY: For years, federal law has shielded the gun industry—dealers and manufacturers—from nearly all accountability for the danger and damages their products cause. This means that the costs of gun violence are borne almost exclusively by victims and taxpayers. Creating real accountability for the gun industry by requiring microstamping and smart-gun technology and enabling accountability through Washington's Consumer Protection Act creates a path to hold the industry and gun owners to higher standards.

ADDRESS INEQUITABLE AND BIASED POLICING: Washington passed an historic package of police accountability legislation in 2021. Together, these bills make much-needed changes that will reduce police violence, increase accountability and transparency, set clear guidance for law enforcement, and improve access to justice. It is crucial that we protect, refine, and build on these policies in close collaboration with BIPOC communities to ensure they are working as intended.
Either Marxist or liberal idiots. They should be wary of unintended consequences, like Irwin Mann's hogs.
 
OK, so it appears that all that would be needed is a serial number applied by a FFL. But since an 80% unfinished frame or receiver is not a firearm, it would appear that federal laws and regulations applicable to FFLs and firearm serial numbers are not applicable to these unfinished items and the FFL could apply any combination of characters to comply with WA law. Yes? How about "Jay Inslee is an Idiot"? I see a business opportunity here. I get my FFL and offer to apply whatever the WA customer wants as his or her serial number to an 80% frame or receiver the WA resident has sent to me. These items never go into my book because they are not firearms. The WA customer gets an invoice for application of a "serial number" to his or her unfinished frame or receiver. Now because these items are not firearms, it also appears that the federal requirements regarding firearm serial numbers (name, location , model, caliber and depth of marking) would not be applicable and the FFL could comply with WA law by merely attaching a Post-it note to the unfinished frame or receiver.
The WA customer may want a way to prove he got an FFL to apply the serial number so you should think about some sort of certificate of authenticity at least, to be given to the customer.
 
The WA customer may want a way to prove he got an FFL to apply the serial number so you should think about some sort of certificate of authenticity at least, to be given to the customer.
The first thing WA customers need to do is vote the proponents of these measures out of office. I know how hard a task that can be which is a good part of the reasons I moved from CA to ID. I was primarily trying to point how stupid the measure is, but if it comes to pass, I am game for getting my FFL. applying serial numbers and providing certificates.
 
An FFL can only apply the serial number of the gun it manufactures. Smith and Wesson can't take a finished gun frame to FN and ask FN to serialize it.

There are variances the ATF can authorize for outsourced manufacturing arrangements so that the contractor's name is not engraved on the 100% products.

If an unlicensed consumer finishes an 80% kit and takes it to an 07 FFL and asks the FFL to engrave a serial number on it I think the answer will be no.
 
An FFL can only apply the serial number of the gun it manufactures. Smith and Wesson can't take a finished gun frame to FN and ask FN to serialize it.

There are variances the ATF can authorize for outsourced manufacturing arrangements so that the contractor's name is not engraved on the 100% products.

If an unlicensed consumer finishes an 80% kit and takes it to an 07 FFL and asks the FFL to engrave a serial number on it I think the answer will be no.
And that's the goal, they want to shut down 80% by making the hoops impossible to jump through... like requiring a Federal tax-stamp for pot then refusing to issue the stamp.
 
Yes, that's my point. Some of the earlier posts proposed taking the finished Polymer 80 frame to an FFL manufacturer for a serial number and certificate, but that route is not available, and yes the goal is to make it as difficult as possible to own everything gun related. It begins with "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" and "ghost guns" and then moves on to everything else.

This "ghost gun" bill has problems which have doomed other passed bills in court, but I will not discuss them here because the proponents of these bills read these forums.
 
Yes, that's my point. Some of the earlier posts proposed taking the finished Polymer 80 frame to an FFL manufacturer for a serial number and certificate, but that route is not available. This bill has problems which have doomed other passed bills in court, but I will not discuss them here because the proponents of these bills read these forums.
This is why I've long advocated that the Activism subforum should be Registered Members in good standing ONLY, preferably with a minimum post-count and "time in service".

Remember, if you didn't vote your gun-rights first, YOU voted for this!
 
An FFL can only apply the serial number of the gun it manufactures. Smith and Wesson can't take a finished gun frame to FN and ask FN to serialize it.

There are variances the ATF can authorize for outsourced manufacturing arrangements so that the contractor's name is not engraved on the 100% products.

If an unlicensed consumer finishes an 80% kit and takes it to an 07 FFL and asks the FFL to engrave a serial number on it I think the answer will be no.
Your statement is correct but steps over what I suggested. I did not suggest that an unlicensed consumer finish an 80% kit and take it to an 007 FFL for a serial number. First, possession or purchase of the unserialized 80% would violate the proposed WA law. My suggestion was to have a FFL mark the 80% frame or receiver with a serial number. Thus, the consumer could purchase and possess the 80% frame or receiver under the proposed WA law. Federal law regulating how an 007FFL marks a firearm or receiver would not apply because the 80% frame or receiver is not a firearm. Nor would federal law apply to the consumer completing the 80% frame or receiver, so long as the consumer is completing the frame or receiver for his or her own use and not for sale.
 

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