Oregon Washington County Deputy Shoots Man Dead - Roy Rodgers Road

[Ura-Ki]

Finally, A reasoned response! So you agree that LEO should have access to the tools needed to suppress and de escalate, but only in times of great need. Check! I think were finally starting to agree a little. I think it's fair to say that 99% of LEO do not have access to the tools described thus far, and when they have "Great Need" then they should have them available, and no extra hoops to jump through to employ them! That's why many local, county and State Law Enforcement agencies have SWAT teams, so that the every day uniform doesn't put them selves at extreme risk. Yet the do every day, often with only a pistol, some times a shotgun or a AR, and even then, they are still out gunned many times!

 

[Kruel J]

He was a dummy in a truck, set out to do no good. He had options, but chose none of them. LEO's did their job. Nobody besides the suspect got hurt.

Case closed.

 

[Doublesunder]

I think the Dummy in the truck got derailed long ago

 

[kott0n]

Hypothetical Situation here. Bad dude walks into a school with a_______________ name weapon of choice here. Starts killing and making demands! People are dying, and more are at extreme risk, at what point in this do you rub your head and say ok to the police having access to things that up till now you flat out refuse to allow? The longer you take to think out your reasoned answer, the more kids and staff are killed! Quickly now, you need to answer, life hangs in the answer you provide!!!!! Come on now, people are FREEKIN OUT at the sights and sounds coming out of that school man, and LEO hands are tied because you don't want them to have the tools needed to do something to put a stop to this! Unfortunately this has already happened, and our LEO didn't have the tools they needed, and people died! Blood is on the hands of every one who cried out STOP, do not allow our Police to have certain tools so they can do a better job in the face of this new world we live in! The time it took you to read this, 12 kids were killed, and the time it takes to answer the questions I pose to you 12 more will die! What is your reasoned answer?

This was actually a scenario Swat, Swat uniforms, Swat tactics and Swat gear was designed for. It wasn't designed for no knock warrants on non violent civilians or randomly searching homes ala any recent natural disaster or the parade bombing incident. As much as the police want it to be for those situations, it was't intended for that.

Now its the go to, its the new norm, full on assault teams for the most minor thing. They escalate the situation for no reason.

I learned along time ago when I get pulled over, assume full felony stop. Hands out the window, I declare no weapons (or that I do and where they are), I ask to reach for my wallet and registration, I say "Yes Sir, No Sir.". Its a bubbleguming shame but all it takes is the cop to think I'm someone else or think I'm reaching where I shouldn't and game over. Remember the Dorner incidents in California? The cops literally shot up 3 "similar", I use that term very loose here, trucks because that ex cop was going around terrorizing them. So they got all jumpy and there was numerous instances of them shooting at civs just in that 1 "mission".

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Since I have been quoted a page or two back...I'd like to respond ( again ).

Yes I have spoken about my concerns over the "Militarization of the police"...
To make myself clear its more a concern over just how law enforcement is appearing to look more and more like a military unit and less like my idea of the image of a traditional law enforcement officer...the quasi military gear , uniforms etc...the need for a APC...etc...
I also dislike the idea that guys with full body armor , various grenades , rifles with every attachment known to man , and a APC are used at the drop of a hat ....

All that said...
I also understand that I just tossed out a image that is very biased and a picture that was painted with very broad brush strokes and blanket statements....
And that the above is not the norm and is more my concerns and not how it really is...

I am not law enforcement and I have no real idea of their needs for their job.
My thoughts and concerns come from my interactions with law enforcement ( very little ) and the news media which can be "iffy" at best.

At the end of the day , I trust my local law enforcement.
I do think that one must go with a case by case basis :
Some departments and units need to have specialized equipment...
As pointed out by a member here who is law enforcement...the wearing of a vest with gear attached is the most comfortable way to carry what is needed...
( I may just need to get used to the idea of police needing what looks like a flak vest , etc.. )
I am also sure that with special equipment there is special training for the use and deployment of said gear...
Not every department and not every police response , is like the one , pick one any one , bad example that is shown over and over on the nightly news...
I might need to come to terms that it is not Mayberry circa 1960 anymore....
Do the things that I am concerned about happen?...of course...but again it is not the norm , nor what happens with every law enforcement encounter or interaction...

As I also said in a earlier post...I'd rather have a well equipped and highly trained police force , even with my concerns , than a ill equipped and poorly trained police force , of no use to anyone.

Should folks question what is used and have concerns...of course...but lets remember to do so respectfully ...the vast majority of law enforcement officers are doing their job professionally and without any cause for alarm.
Andy

 

[RetiredLEO]

What about using Swat teams for non violent warrants? Only one state publish their swat raid data, Utah, and not all police departments in the state participate in them. The stats are pretty clear and its skewed because its just 1 state with agencies within not participating and it still paints a picture of the majority of the raids on are on non violent offenders/offenses.

I love the military and the police. I'm very respectful to Officers who respect civilians and common sense. I have family who has served. They have a place in today's world. I just feel they aren't being used appropriately and its getting worse, not better.

I appreciate your attitude (thank you) and respect your right to your opinion. Our perspectives are quite different, however.
FYI....after 59 years as a LEO in street and supervisory levels with large city, county and federal (USA and international) jurisdictions I have never seen SWAT used to serve warrants where there was no anticipated threat of a violent confrontation. Fortunately most often the likely violence does not occur when it is obvious that LE is prepared and equipped to deal with whatever might arise. Unfortunately sociopathic individuals do exist and must be contained in the manner that will insure the greatest level of safety to everyone involved.

We (LEO's) "...have a place in today's world"? That's generous.

With regards to your comment that we "...aren't being used appropriately...".

We aren't being "used" by anyone but ourselves. As LEO supervisors we guide, train, and "use" our subordinates to live up to the oath we have taken to serve to protect the rights and freedoms of the public from those who would attempt to steal them.
Again, I appreciate your support for our profession. I also respect your right to your opinions. Most of us serve departments that have some version of a "spend a shift riding with an officer" program. Spending a little time getting to know us, what we do, how and why we do it, and seeing our profession thru our eyes might change your perspective a bit.
Just a suggestion.
Scott
Semper Fi

 

[ItsLunchBOX]

Ok - that article said it was SFR and RRR - which is actually just inside the growth boundary for Beaverton/Progress, several miles from Sherwood. I drive thru there twice daily coming from/to Scholls and have been thru there regularly since I was a toddler - my grandfather briefly farmed one of the fields there (catty corner to the new HS) decades ago. I grew up here. So I am very familiar with the area.

I imagine they were very worried about the school kids - I would be. There are actually two schools in that area if I remember right - the new HS and one a little couple more blocks towards Beaverton. There are now a LOT of kids walking those sidewalks.

I think the article has it wrong. Judging by the police activity trying to drive through it and the road blocks, this would have been closer to Roy Rodgers and Scholls-Sherwood Rd.

Somewhere around here:

 

[11Charlie]

Wow you go to dinner with your wife and you miss everything.

There is always one in the group guys that just doesn't get it!!

 

[ItsLunchBOX]

ok so I figured out exactly where this happened based off helicopter pictures from KGW. As a bullet flies this was about a mile from Laurel Ridge Middle School. Also, trying to figure out if @MrRob96 is purposefully trolling...

The guy was driving erratically in a field that doesn't appear to be his. When approached by responding officers, he discharged a firearm. It was 2 hours between when this was first called in and officers engaged and before the APC showed up. Still more time after that with the APC chasing him around. This guy had plenty of time to give up, change his mind. He was a threat and was dealt with. Good shoot.

So based off this picture:


The incident happened at this farm:

 

[mkwerx]

Police have a duty to win when engaging violent individuals. Its part of the mandate they have to protect the general public and peace. To that end police *must* have the ability to bring oerwhelming force when a situation dictates. This can be as simple as massing 5 or 6 cops to "pigpile" (used affectionately) an unarmed physically resistive nut into cuffs, OR bring to bear an MP5 with fun switch to take out an armed subject who has shot at officers and is headed for a crowd, or an armored vehicle to safely infil/exfil an area under fire.

The days if six shooters and a cocobolo baton are pretty much gone. In those days police departments often had higher physical standards and lower educational requirements. Now thanks to crap like the EEOC the bar got lowered. Cannot expect a dainty lil cop to go hands on with a guy my size. So now they go from carrying a few tools to a whole batbelt full of crap. And they go in force. No more one riot one ranger stuff either.

Cops should have the tools to solve the problems they face short of calling in air strikes or having Blue Thunder like armed attack helicopters. And as regular people, we ought to be able to own anything they can as well, but thats tangential topic for another thread.

 

[bbbass]

Read the entire thread... sheesh!

IMO the opinion that Law Enforcement agencies pick whatever level of armament they want and do whatever they want is just not true. Yes, there are some unfortunate incidents but I think these are overblown by a hyper critical media. Even that shows that there is a feedback loop from the public that has influence over armament and tactics. Point being that there is no removing of Law Enforcement from public control. The police chief is largely a political hire, and sheriffs are directly elected. These positions are susceptible to public scrutiny and displeasure. If LEOs were as much out of control as some think, the public as a whole would never stand for it.

People have a bad experience with LE and it stays with them their entire lives. To the point where they become suspicious and paranoid. See conspiracies everywhere.

I spent 90% of my career working closely with LEOs, and I am TELLING you that they are people just like the rest of us. Most just want to serve, some want the excitement, a very few are macho types. The organizations as a whole tho are primarily dedicated to their fellow man. I know it's a job I could never do, because I have no patience for knuckleheads and drunks.

 

[RetiredLEO]

Read the entire thread... sheesh!

IMO the opinion that Law Enforcement agencies pick whatever level of armament they want and do whatever they want is just not true. Yes, there are some unfortunate incidents but I think these are overblown by a hyper critical media. Even that shows that there is a feedback loop from the public that has influence over armament and tactics. Point being that there is no removing of Law Enforcement from public control. The police chief is largely a political hire, and sheriffs are directly elected. These positions are susceptible to public scrutiny and displeasure. If LEOs were as much out of control as some think, the public as a whole would never stand for it.

People have a bad experience with LE and it stays with them their entire lives. To the point where they become suspicious and paranoid. See conspiracies everywhere.

I spent 90% of my career working closely with LEOs, and I am TELLING you that they are people just like the rest of us. Most just want to serve, some want the excitement, a very few are macho types. The organizations as a whole tho are primarily dedicated to their fellow man. I know it's a job I could never do, because I have no patience for knuckleheads and drunks.

On behalf of all LEOs thank you for your support.
Semper Fi

 

[bbbass]

On behalf of all LEOs thank you for your support.
Semper Fi

Semper Paratus, Brother!

 

[The Heretic]

Cops should have the tools to solve the problems they face short of calling in air strikes or having Blue Thunder like armed attack helicopters. And as regular people, we ought to be able to own anything they can as well, but thats tangential topic for another thread.

I don't have a problem with LE having armament - especially if it is armament that a civilian is allowed to own. I do look askance a bit at the "militarization" of police, especially when it trickles down into everyday public interactions (not criminals).

That aside (and this incident aside), but since people are talking about 'tools' and LE effectiveness, and since, what really upsets me is when LE leaders (Chief of Police, FBI directors, AGs, DAs), politicians (mayors, governors, POTUS, Congress, et. al.) talking about how we have to give LE "effective tools" by monitoring all of our comms, reading our email, demanding encryption and password backdoors into all of our comms devices. Not to mention no-knock warrants, "shock and awe" warrant services and so on.

Those kinds of things, that are meant to infringe on our rights and increase the power of the government over the populace, I have a real problem with.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I believe the map images above are flipped! I may be wrong here though! Also, the pair of images of the intersection of Roy Rodgers and Sholls doesn't show the new Mega High School ( South Cooper Mountain), and the massive parking lots and fields surrounding that new school! In this, I think some folks need to take a look at the elevated threat this lone dude and a pick up with an AR posed to that school, from elevated field he was doing donuts in to the highchool is under 400 yards, way too close for any one with a rifle!!!

 

[Koda]

ItsLunchBOX posted the correct location above...

here is a link to the location. By pure coincidence I drove by yesterday, there was a lone KGW news truck there and I could see all the tire tracks from the event in the field... otherwise it was cleaned up.

Google Maps

no where near the new high school up the road, but literally right out of town of Sherwood. There is an elementary school nearby.

 

[11Charlie]

Let's just say it like it is! Do any of us want to do there job?!!

I sure as hell don't! I give those guys credit they leave there family every night and need to keep there head on a swivel at all times because people hate them but expect them to protect them at the same time. bubblegum that!!! These guys deserve our respect!!!

If you're going to scrutinize every move they make so they can go home to there family and loved ones then shame on you! They have my full support and respect!!

 

[ItsLunchBOX]

I believe the map images above are flipped! I may be wrong here though! Also, the pair of images of the intersection of Roy Rodgers and Sholls doesn't show the new Mega High School ( South Cooper Mountain), and the massive parking lots and fields surrounding that new school! In this, I think some folks need to take a look at the elevated threat this lone dude and a pick up with an AR posed to that school, from elevated field he was doing donuts in to the highchool is under 400 yards, way too close for any one with a rifle!!!

The new highschool is 3.2 miles north of this. The highschool is on Scholls Ferry and Roy Rogers/175th. This incident was on Scholls-Sherwood and Roy Rogers. Scholls Ferry Rd and Scholls-Sherwood Rd are different roads.

If it makes you feel better I rotated the map on google maps to match the KGW Helicopter photo. This is the correct location.



even more zoomed in, same barn from the KGW photo:

 

[Ura-Ki]

Your Right Koda, No where near the new school! I hadn't been by there in some time! Still, a bad deal! It doesn't help that there are 3 Sholls listed

 

[ItsLunchBOX]

ItsLunchBOX posted the correct location above...

here is a link to the location. By pure coincidence I drove by yesterday, there was a lone KGW news truck there and I could see all the tire tracks from the event in the field... otherwise it was cleaned up.

Google Maps

no where near the new high school up the road, but literally right out of town of Sherwood. There is an elementary school nearby.

This is correct, the closest school was over a mile away (by roads). Here is a satellite view. School is in upper right corner, incident is in lower left.