Oregon Washington County Deputy Shoots Man Dead - Roy Rodgers Road

[Camelfilter]

...I do get the concerns that many have about militarization of the police. It's not a good visual to have LEO shooting from an APC at civilians. But I can't argue with the strategy when all things are considered.

But I do have concerns that SWAT teams often seem to me to be over used in serving warrants, I get why they do it, but it just seems to often escalate and get out of hand.

Just seems like human nature that when you train hard in tactics and with cool tools that you may be a bit over zealous when it comes time to employ them. But that's just me speculating.

I do not.

Hardened criminals are being turned out from serving actual sentences like a revolving door, and against the law continue to hang with other criminals.

So that warrant being served, not likely anything new to the person being served. So I'm all for no knock & Tactical. The criminal by that point (more likely than not) has a lot of practice.

The point is to arrest the suspect, safely. Nothing more.

 

[billdeserthills]

How would you have arrested the guy?

Seems like that 'armored vehicle' likely has a loudspeaker--
I bet it would be easy to tell the suspect to put down the gun & get down on the ground, does that sound workable? Must cost less than the 'wrongful death' suit that will follow

 

[billdeserthills]

First of all they are NOT tanks, merely transport vehicles which are armor plated to insure that LEO's contained therein are protected from incoming fire from civilian weapons which are in common every day use that are favored by the criminal element who are increasingly intent on killing (LEOs). These armored vehicles are employed only when necessary to deal with incidents that are, or have the potential to develop into lethal confrontations.

Second...you use the word "murder" in describing LEO shootings. True, unjustified lethal use of force incidents involving LEOs do rarely happen. We are human and it is possible that there are those of us out there who have the potential to overreact in response to the adrenalin rush out of fear for our own lives or in an effort to protect the lives of a brother officer or innocent civilian(s). However waiting for incoming fire is a short route to a coffin. We are not Matt Dillon or Doc Holliday. We have to see and recognize the potential threat, decide the appropriate course of action to neutralize the threat, initiate the action, and in that split second period of time pray that we have reacted properly and quickly enough to prevent the loss of an innocent life (or our own). And... righteous shoot or not we have to live every day thereafter with having taken a life. Happen every day? No, but often enough that it better be in the forefront of your brain every minute that you are out there.

Every officer in the jurisdictions I am familiar with undergos comprehensive testing and training before they are sworn in. These tests include, but are not limited to, intelligence, physical, peer review, comprehensive background investigation, financial and criminal history, drug history and testing, and a very thorough psychological test and interrogation by a psychiatrist who has an LEO background and training. After passing all of that the applicant undergoes 17 weeks of intense training at a police academy and one and a half years of field training with his agency during which time he undergoes additional testing and supervision by an experienced FTO (field training officer).

You apparently live in Arizona. I would consider it a benefit to the PNW if everyone with your attitude lived there and let us "...help America" in our own way.

I hear ya, probably not as easy to 'help' people by simply shooting them dead, with folks like me around pointing a finger at ya, while wondering why all the police cars I see say "To Serve & Protect" at least where You live the word 'Ourselves' could be placed underneath, just to give the victims bit of a hint

 

[Camelfilter]

Seems like that 'armored vehicle' likely has a loudspeaker--
I bet it would be easy to tell the suspect to put down the gun & get down on the ground, does that sound workable? Must cost less than the 'wrongful death' suit that will follow

Well yes, obviously the police just drove out there and shot the guy.

 

[Koda]

Seems like that 'armored vehicle' likely has a loudspeaker--
I bet it would be easy to tell the suspect to put down the gun & get down on the ground, does that sound workable? Must cost less than the 'wrongful death' suit that will follow

How do you know they didnt do that?

The video evidence indicates he wasnt giving up....

 

[Camelfilter]

How do you know they didnt do that?

The video evidence indicates he wasnt giving up....

Yar. Over several hours.

 

[billdeserthills]

Well yes, obviously the police just drove out there and shot the guy.

Obviously, why else would the cop who killed the young man be driving in an armored vehicle?

 

[Camelfilter]

Obviously, why else would the cop who killed the young man be driving in an armored vehicle?

To politely request his surrender, which he opted not to do.

 

[billdeserthills]

To politely request his surrender, which he opted not to do.

Sure, that makes lots of sense, cause young people are always doing donuts and then requesting death by cop

 

[Camelfilter]

Sure, that makes lots of sense, cause young people are always doing donuts and then requesting death by cop

Not while firing a rifle, at police, and indescrimenantly.

 

[Koda]

If this was a guy who was just having fun in a field he wouldnt have shot at the cop.

Why do we keep forgetting that?

 

[kott0n]

These were designed to be used on a BATTLFIELD against INSURGENTS.

These were not designed for use on American soil. Whatever happened to not having a standING army?
They are so close to the military now, sans camo colors. Hell the NY police Dept is the world's 4th largest army.

 

[billdeserthills]

If this was a guy who was just having fun in a field he wouldnt have shot at the cop.

Why do we keep forgetting that?

Now your just making it hard to argue

 

[RetiredLEO]

These were designed to be used on a BATTLFIELD against INSURGENTS.

These were not designed for use on American soil. Whatever happened to not having a standING army?
They are so close to the military now, sans camo colors. Hell the NY police Dept is the world's 4th largest army.

And why do you suppose they are now being adapted for use domestically? And why to you suppose NYPD has so many officers? Read the news, visit the city, pay attention and the answers will become obvious.

 

[Pandaz3]

There was a complaint phoned into the call center and a Deputy sent in a regular patrol vehicle to investigate. When the Deputy approached the 54 year old 'youth' he was fired on by said 'youth' and he immediately got out of the line of fire and called for help. A couple hours later, the 54 year old 'youth' decided his next job would be pushing up Daisies.

 

[kott0n]

And why do you suppose they are now being adapted for use domestically? And why to you suppose NYPD has so many officers? Read the news, visit the city, pay attention and the answers will become obvious.

Militarization of police. Unless you honestly think this oregon county is similar to Fallujah, I'm not sure what to day to you.

 

[gunnails]

I do not.

Hardened criminals are being turned out from serving actual sentences like a revolving door, and against the law continue to hang with other criminals.

So that warrant being served, not likely anything new to the person being served. So I'm all for no knock & Tactical. The criminal by that point (more likely than not) has a lot of practice.

The point is to arrest the suspect, safely. Nothing more.

==================================
That's assuming they are arresting the right suspect or that they even have the right house. I would guess it a rare mistake but I would hate to have a SWAT team mistake my house and bust in and shoot the dog and possibly me or a family member.

But I am getting into the weeds here with my what if's. Full confession is I watch way to much YouTube and it's the bad raids that get posted up and not the large majority that go right.. So I have to admit that skews my perspective.

I am just saying that I understand the concerns about the Police being militarized, it's just I don't have a good argument against it, other then SWAT being used in no knocks aand other raids where I can argue that we would all be better off sending a couple of LEO's up to simply knock on the door.

 

[Camelfilter]

==================================
That's assuming they are arresting the right suspect or that they even have the right house. I would guess it a rare mistake but I would hate to have a SWAT team mistake my house and bust in and shoot the dog and possibly me or a family member.

But I am getting into the weeds here with my what if's. Full confession is I watch way to much YouTube and it's the bad raids that get posted up and not the large majority that go right.. So I have to admit that skews my perspective.

I am just saying that I understand the concerns about the Police being militarized, it's just I don't have a good argument against it, other then SWAT being used in no knocks aand other raids where I can argue that we would all be better off sending a couple of LEO's up to simply knock on the door.

Oh I hear what your saying.

It's just that sending a couple police to go knock on the doors to present warrants where currently no knocks are now used, will result in a lot of wounded (or killed) police.

Take a look thru your county booking shots if you have a chance, there are a lot of bad folks...something a heck of a lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge.

 

[gunnails]

Oh I hear what your saying.

It's just that sending a couple police to go knock on the doors to present warrants where currently no knocks are now used, will result in a lot of wounded (or killed) police.

Take a look thru your county booking shots if you have a chance, there are a lot of bad folks...something a heck of a lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge.

============================

I wasn't clear with my thoughts.

Not all warrants are of the no knock variety, not all suspects are consider possibly violent, Many suspects are arrested in there home where there wife and children are present

Not all warrants are served by SWAT teams, I have no real idea but would guess most are not served by SWAT.

I am just suggesting that sometimes SWAT is used when it is not a good idea to do so.

All that said, I don't blame the SWAT team for what their bosses order them to do.

The guy doing cookies in the field I would argue was killed by the deputy who shot him, but it was deputies boss that is responsible for that.

Just my take.

 

[Camelfilter]

============================

I wasn't clear with my thoughts.

Not all warrants are of the no knock variety, not all suspects are consider possibly violent, Many suspects are arrested in there home where there wife and children are present

Not all warrants are served by SWAT teams, I have no real idea but would guess most are not served by SWAT.

I am just suggesting that sometimes SWAT is used when it is not a good idea to do so.

All that said, I don't blame the SWAT team for what their bosses order them to do.

The guy doing cookies in the field I would argue was killed by the deputy who shot him, but it was deputies boss that is responsible for that.

Just my take.

Yah, except IMO the guy was killed by his own actions. No one else's.

It is the dead guy who is responsible.