WA is doing it's best to drive gun owners out or make them criminals: anyone else planning on moving?

[leadcounsel]

Thats not what I find most depressing, its all the gun owners who refuse to take any action or have given up. Its like playing for a sports team where 3/4 of the players go home or lay down on feild because there 10 pionts behind.

It's worse that that analogy in many ways. Half our players are working against us, or quit years ago. I banged my head against the wall in arguing with apathetic gun owners who were either Democrats, never-Trumpers, voted libertarian, or didn't bother voting.

There's got to be enough gun owners who, if they simply voted in a unified block for pro-gun candidates who have a real chance of winning (not far-out 3rd parties), and stopped wasting votes that Washington (and other states) could be rescued. No shots fired. No expensive long-term frustrating lawsuits. VOTE. VOTE. VOTE. And all of this anxiety, stress, depression, frustration, time and money wasted, etc would go away and our/their/your rights restored.

But I've gone round and round and round with people who didn't vote Trump because he wasn't the "perfect" candidate, etc. Just a few months ago I was in a gunshop where 3 adults were shopping for a handgun and they were unjustifiably completely unaware of I1639 and the waiting period. The employee and I looked at each other with unmistakable AYFKM expressions...

In an age where most people have more information in their pocket at the touch of a few buttons than entire libraries could hold in the past, it's totally unacceptable for people to be uniformed and ignorant. Yet folks can tell you the latest updates on some irrelevant TV show or sports statistic. And Washington folks are some of the worst offenders of ignorance and apathy. Ballots are mailed to them with pre-paid return envelopes and a printed GUIDE to the issues. Yet 50% can't be bothered ... It's heartbreaking, really, what folks in prior generations have suffered and sacrificed given the current state of affairs.

 

[Flopsweat]

Ever drive around suburbs near 6th Street in Tacoma? It's like a ancient road before grading and leveling or maintenance was invented. I don't know HOW those people can put up with it. Having sat in my share of highways turned into parking lots, I'm fully convinced the wisdom of the legislature and leadership purposefully frustrates drivers as a goal to reduce driving; punishment to car owners if you will. It's by design to reduce "carbon footprint" nonsense. Poorly designed, poorly maintained roads.



In fairness, about the ONLY thing I can get behind is a reduction of plastic single use waste. Plastic bags, straws, sytrofoam plates, etc. all goes right into our water ways and oceans or dumps and does actual tangible harm to humans and animals and marine life. I FULLY support the reduction and ultimate elimination of these single-use products. It's not too hard to plan ahead and bring reusable cotton bags, that you wash with your normal load of laundry from time to time. I digress.

No, the bags and straws laws are completely out of line. Laws are a last resort to curb bad behavior - really bad behavior, not annoying behavior. Laws are not for forcing your values on others. You want to reduce the amount of plastic waste, go for it but you don't get to force it on me.

 

[leadcounsel]

No, the bags and straws laws are completely out of line. Laws are a last resort to curb bad behavior - really bad behavior, not annoying behavior. Laws are not for forcing your values on others. You want to reduce the amount of plastic waste, go for it but you don't get to force it on me.

Agree to disagree. I also support the outlawing of pooping on public streets, trivial vandalism, trivial theft, etc. all of which are benign bad behavior for which the cost to enforce is probably larger than the problem, if we take your view. But in the aggregate it's gross, offensive, and/or causes real direct and indirect harm.

When folks use/waste single use plastic items, foam, etc. these items will last for generations and in the aggregate costs us significantly in cleanup or harm to our environment and wildlife. The costs are direct and indirect, just like the examples I gave. Throwing a plastic shopping bag in the ocean may seem trivial, but you shouldn't have the bag to begin with, and that bag does great harm to our water and aquatic life. When a litterer collects a bag or straw and throws it carelessly and it ends up in the ocean, it harms something directly or indirectly. And that robs me and others of something irreplaceable; a clean environment to enjoy and clean aquatic life, which is part of the circle of life. It harms fish, mammals, birds, shellfish, etc. to the point of changing their DNA structure.

 

[Flopsweat]

Agree to disagree. I also support the outlawing of pooping on public streets, trivial vandalism, trivial theft, etc. all of which are benign bad behavior for which the cost to enforce is probably larger than the problem, if we take your view. But in the aggregate it's gross, offensive, and/or causes real direct and indirect harm.

When folks use/waste single use plastic items, foam, etc. these items will last for generations and in the aggregate costs us significantly in cleanup or harm to our environment and wildlife. The costs are direct and indirect, just like the examples I gave. Throwing a plastic shopping bag in the ocean may seem trivial, but you shouldn't have the bag to begin with, and that bag does great harm to our water and aquatic life. When a litterer collects a bag or straw and throws it carelessly and it ends up in the ocean, it harms something directly or indirectly. And that robs me and others of something irreplaceable; a clean environment to enjoy and clean aquatic life, which is part of the circle of life. It harms fish, mammals, birds, shellfish, etc. to the point of changing their DNA structure.

I'm not sure we disagree as much as you think. The ones you mentioned above I think should be laws. Plastic straws on the other hand, are not much of a threat. You might be surprised how little we pollute compared to certain other countries. Charging me a nickel for a grocery bag is just virtue signaling and does nothing (and it won't stop there). I'm not willing to suffer just so that someone else can feel like they are making a difference. Stealing and vandalizing, that's a whole different category.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

buy one now behind closed doors don't register it nor do anything with it just have.
doesn't seem to matter where you move Florida has done some bad Gun control crap just after that school shooting so...
Nevada won't be far and not sure what their gun laws are... But if I had to chose I'd chose Nevada.
out of your choices that is. But I'd prefer either Wyoming or Montana. Montana may be from what I see they have a hella cheap hunting and fishing licenses.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

and bag arguments above etc... Meh! too fricking much control in my opinion. for one Plastic can be made from a biodegradable material such as hemp or other plant material. No need to ban crap at all. It's them or you just using a false narrative on how bad the environment is, to begin with, to force people to use what you want us to use.
As far as the comment on throwing away stuff yeah I get it the now plastic item is bad and take thousands of years or at least hundreds to break down, on that I do agree something needs to be done but no banning stuff. Ther are far too many laws already telling us to evolve forcibly which is a false narrative in itself that we are to evolve and or did.
Evilution is false no one ever evolved not any animal. Humans aren't animals we're created spiritual creatures with a soul. For that matter so are animals I believe they also have a soul. For I don't believe when Jesus returns or we die and go to heaven that it's only where humans will be, for animals will be there as well either way.
All this banning stuff has gone far too far and it's time to not obey.

 

[ARFrog]

I find it interesting that the World Health Organization is concerned about the negative effects of poor sanitation world wide:

Sanitation

Sanitation fact sheet provides key facts and information on benefits of improving sanitation, challenges and WHO response

www.who.int

Yet there are some that are more concerned in the USA about plastic straws and bags than the devolving of basic sanitation on our city streets and the expanding costly effects to:

- health
- education
- social welfare
- crime
- etc
- etc

Our virtue signaling is leading to real life costs for all our citizens as we allow these same city streets to become third-world equivalents...

...madness

 

[arakboss]

Maybe consider a mass migration to tip the Balance in Oregon and rid it of its cancer.

As an Oregonian I would love to see this happen, if the migration was done right. In order for this to be most effective the migration of pro-gun familes would need to be concentrated in districts were anti-gun voters are near half the voting population. The environments are not that different from WA and Northern California. We won't be able to change Portland area districts but there are enough other districts that could be changed to change the landscape for freedom lovers. If you can bring employment opportunities/businesses with you all the better.

 

[Ferryman]

2.5 years to retirement. Going shopping for land in Tennessee this coming spring....

 

[wired]

It's worse that that analogy in many ways. Half our players are working against us, or quit years ago. I banged my head against the wall in arguing with apathetic gun owners who were either Democrats, never-Trumpers, voted libertarian, or didn't bother voting.

Oh, I'm sorry is there something Trump has done for gun owners other than nominate supreme court justices that were hand picked for him to nominate ? Something that ANY Republican would have done? Nothing. He has done nothing. Not one anti gun EO overturned. He could do that with a stroke of a pen. Didnt do it. Not one ATF policy changed except he promted the ATF to ban bumpstocks which they still have no authority to do. No pro gun legislation passed in the two years he could have passed it KNOWING that his election was going to cost us the House of Representatives at the mid terms . The NRA has had to step in and remind him on several occasions that he is pretending to be a Republican and to knock off the anti gun talk. Wait until the next election and Trump is unbound by reelection. Then your'e going to see the true face of Trump.

 

[leadcounsel]

As an Oregonian I would love to see this happen, if the migration was done right. In order for this to be most effective the migration of pro-gun familes would need to be concentrated in districts were anti-gun voters are near half the voting population. The environments are not that different from WA and Northern California. We won't be able to change Portland area districts but there are enough other districts that could be changed to change the landscape for freedom lovers. If you can bring employment opportunities/businesses with you all the better.

Wishful thinking. Not gonna happen. No large block of conservatives are going to uproot their lives and move to overpriced cities in the leftists PNW.

The ones remaining there are going to have to fight. And it's a rapidly deteriorating situation as every year your allies flee and enemies move in...

I blame the apathetic gun owners as much as the enemy.

 

[leadcounsel]

Oh, I'm sorry is there something Trump has done for gun owners other than nominate supreme court justices that were hand picked for him to nominate ? Something that ANY Republican would have done? Nothing. He has done nothing. Not one anti gun EO overturned. He could do that with a stroke of a pen. Didnt do it. Not one ATF policy changed except he promted the ATF to ban bumpstocks which they still have no authority to do. No pro gun legislation passed in the two years he could have passed it KNOWING that his election was going to cost us the House of Representatives at the mid terms . The NRA has had to step in and remind him on several occasions that he is pretending to be a Republican and to knock off the anti gun talk.

Trump hasn't been perfect. No president is.

But take a moment to imagine our nation today if he didn't run or lost to Clinton.

 

[arakboss]

Trump hasn't been perfect. No president is.

But take a moment to imagine our nation today if he didn't run or lost to Clinton.

I agree, and he will be the best choice we have.

My biggest fear is that in a second term when he doesn't have to worry about getting reelected that he might give in to democrat demands on gun control issues to get votes on his other issues (especially if we have another cluster of mass murders involving firearms). He is a president who likes to get stuff done and I could easily see him throwing us under the bus to get stuff checked off his wish list. I doubt firearm liberties are high on his list.

I will still vote for Trump because the alternative will be much worse. Hopefully pro-gun Senators will hang on to the
Senate and we can get another appointment or two on the SCOTUS (preferably strong 2A defenders)

 

[arakboss]

Wishful thinking. Not gonna happen. No large block of conservatives are going to uproot their lives and move to overpriced cities in the leftists PNW.

The ones remaining there are going to have to fight. And it's a rapidly deteriorating situation as every year your allies flee and enemies move in...

I blame the apathetic gun owners as much as the enemy.

A man can dream

 

[wired]

Trump hasn't been perfect. No president is.

But take a moment to imagine our nation today if he didn't run or lost to Clinton.

Wed still have the house for one thing. If he didnt run thered just be a different Republican in office.The ONLY reason Clinton got as many votes as she did was that she ran against Trump. She was always a weak candidate.

 

[leadcounsel]

Wed still have the house for one thing. If he didnt run thered just be a different Republican in office.The ONLY reason Clinton got as many votes as she did was that she ran against Trump. She was always a weak candidate.

It's unlikely IMO that any other Republican could have won over Hillary. Cruz was a top contender, and Cruz BARELY won Texas over a socialist anti-gunner. They were mostly just typical GOP carbon copies of McCain and and Romney who failed to win. Don't get me wrong, I liked a few of them like Cruz a lot, but I don't believe they had the ability to beat Hillary.

The things folks most complain about Trump, e.g. his blunt mannerisms and Twitter, are precisely why he won. He was a disrupter and reached out directly to the voters circumventing the media, and he got unbelievable free media attention. And he rattled his opponents with his mannerisms and rallied his base like no other candidate can. Blood in the water and feeding frenzied crowds.

One can nitpick, and I am also disappointed that with a GOP majority they didn't correct sins of gun control nationally. I'm also disappointed he hasn't used his EO pen to undo some damage. While these are important, I can briefly overlook it since he's 1) blocked the Dems for probably 8 very critical years in our nations' history and 2) appointed piles of Constitutional federal Judges and at least 2 and probably 3-5 SCOTUS Judges by the time he steps down after 8 years. It's a near certainty that the SCOTUS will hear an AWB case in the near future, and they have a gun control case before them now out of New York.

 

[DeanMk]

I will say this, I am almost as angry with the lack of action and motivation from gun owners as I am with the people making the laws.
Gun owners should be encouraging everyone to fight, no matter where they live, no matter the odds.

I think part of the problem is that you try to plead your side of the story, but the leftists have everyone so turned around, the mere fact that you're a firearms advocate instantly brands you as "bad" in the minds of those you're speaking to.
Now all your comments become defensive, instead of offensive, and there is no one around to back you up.
Talk about feeling like a man with no country!
….

 

[DeanMk]

2.5 years to retirement. Going shopping for land in Tennessee this coming spring....

Hopefully they don't freeze your retirement like they did your paycheque for....how long was that?
Have a happy retirement. =)

 

[Hawaiian]

WA and OR progressive politicians refuse to acknowledge what is happening in the other liberal states.
New York, Cal, NJ, Illinois are losing their high tax paying citizens and businesses as they are moving out to more tax friendly states. Their progressive high taxes policies needed to support their socialist programs are the reason. They shot the goose that laid the golden egg. But they won't admit it. OR and WA are following suit.

 

[Meaty]

I gave up reading halfway through.

I'm not running. I selected thus location out of the entire country. I will move a bit further out of town maybe, but I love it here.
If they make me a felon, then they make me a felon. Im not worried about it. I decided 10 years ago that I'm on earth for a good time, not a long time.

Plus, if Virginians drag their representatives from the capital building under suppresive fire and drag them straight to the guillotine, maybe some here will change their tone.