Vaccination nuts like these need to be stopped.

[BBQ Guy]

Wow, I thought their gun laws were redic, but this?

New Zealand to enter nationwide lockdown after single coronavirus case found

New Zealand's government took drastic action Tuesday by putting the entire nation into a strict lockdown for at least three days after finding a single case of coronavirus infection in the community.

www.foxnews.com

I don't like the lock downs.
However the fact is they are actually addressing the issue correctly. The statistics support that.

If our country and the bureaucrats were serious about this. International travel would not be allowed for a year. Nobody in or out. Period.
For a start.

 

[revjen45]

"Harleys really like riding in the back of a pickup truck. I have experience with this."

However my 1941 Indian Chief was the most reliable motorcycle I ever owned. (representative photo - not the same bike)

 

[Hayharnel]

Political content must be directly 2A related....As per forum rules.
Closing thread...as the OP is political and not directly 2A related...as well as being divisive in nature.
Andy

 

[ma96782]

I read a lot but have no idea what is true now days. I found a very long to read history on vaccines and believe it's worth the read. If you only have a few minutes then scroll right to the 1990s and see how autism numbers jumped when the kids were pumped with more vaccine shots.

The Worst Cover-Up In The History Of The World! Vaccinations Are Monkey Business!

The following newsletter on the history of virology, bacteriology, mycology and vaccination is extremely long but important for the world to know the truth. May I suggest before reading further to …

phoreveryoung.wordpress.com

I've often wondered.....
About what was the effect that the liberalized use of MJ had.

Just a correlation perhaps?

Aloha, Mark

 

[BrentN]

Yes, I have heard that argument before. I do not believe that is going on at Salem Hospital at this time. I have personally undergone treatment there, and I can testify that they treat their patients very well and attempt to make them as comfortable as possible. I am sure they would not have left her waiting for an available bed unless it was absolutely necessary. But I'll keep an open mind, and if you can provide evidence that this practice is going on there, I'll reconsider.

ETA, if I hear from any source actual evidence that this practice is going on there, I'll reconsider AND let you know.

BTW, I remember checking the stats at the beginning of the pandemic, and as I recall average hospital capacity pre-covid was about 70%.

So a glance at last weeks stats of one of the two level 1 trauma centers in the pdx area, with a bed capacity of 570 something, had 26 covid patients. I think that works out to 4 to 6 percent, somewhere in there. Not arguing with you Cave, just things to consider.

 

[Cavedweller]

So a glance at last weeks stats of one of the two level 1 trauma centers in the pdx area, with a bed capacity of 570 something, had 26 covid patients. I think that works out to 4 to 6 percent, somewhere in there. Not arguing with you Cave, just things to consider.

Thank you. I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean to me. I only related info about what I heard was happening in Salem, in response to a somewhat hyperbolic post claiming that the pandemic was a sham.

As I stated before, I am opposed to lockdowns and mandates, regardless. But people are getting sick. Yesterday, I heard from a friend in S. Oregon that I had not talked to in a while that his wife became seriously ill on July 11, and he had to take time off from work to care for her. The good news is that he was able to take her off of oxygen a couple days ago, so she is recovering. I don't know how old she is, but she is not what you'd call a senior citizen. So this is more than just the flu in disguise. I find that as time goes by, the more I am personally touched by this.

Your post does raise an interesting point for me, tho. How is it that hospital administrators can be misrepresenting the number of covid patients to increase profits, as some have said, while at the same time publishing statistics like those you have just presented? No contradiction?

 

[made in china]

What I'm hearing from normal news outlets:

-hospitals are overwhelmed by COVID patients

-the overwhelming percentage of hospitalized patients are unvaxxed

What I'm not hearing from normal news:

-anything about deaths.


So, am I to assume, if the first 2 points are true, it's all (mostly) unvaxxed people getting COVID, am I reading between the lines correctly? Maybe the Delta variant is far less deadly, but still concerning?

Does anybody share the same observations or am I suffering from viewpoint bias?

 

[BrentN]

What I'm hearing from normal news outlets:

-hospitals are overwhelmed by COVID patients

-the overwhelming percentage of hospitalized patients are unvaxxed

What I'm not hearing from normal news:

-anything about deaths.


So, am I to assume, if the first 2 points are true, it's all (mostly) unvaxxed people getting COVID, am I reading between the lines correctly? Maybe the Delta variant is far less deadly, but still concerning?

Does anybody share the same observations or am I suffering from viewpoint bias?

I noticed the same thing. We now get to do our own homework on what the mortality rate is.

 

[BrentN]

What I'm hearing from normal news outlets:

-hospitals are overwhelmed by COVID patients

-the overwhelming percentage of hospitalized patients are unvaxxed

What I'm not hearing from normal news:

-anything about deaths.


So, am I to assume, if the first 2 points are true, it's all (mostly) unvaxxed people getting COVID, am I reading between the lines correctly? Maybe the Delta variant is far less deadly, but still concerning?

Does anybody share the same observations or am I suffering from viewpoint bias?

I am hearing generally the same thing about delta- more infectious, but less deadly. I guess it is a pipe dream to expect actual facts without a political undertone.

 

[Cavedweller]

What I'm hearing from normal news outlets:

-hospitals are overwhelmed by COVID patients

-the overwhelming percentage of hospitalized patients are unvaxxed

What I'm not hearing from normal news:

-anything about deaths.


So, am I to assume, if the first 2 points are true, it's all (mostly) unvaxxed people getting COVID, am I reading between the lines correctly? Maybe the Delta variant is far less deadly, but still concerning?

Does anybody share the same observations or am I suffering from viewpoint bias?

Last night it was reported that Jesse Jackson and his wife are both hospitalized, and they are both fully vaxxed. But they are in their 80s.

 

[made in china]

 

[Bob D]

Pretty much. I do not trust those pushing it. About 200-300 people die per year from typical vaccinations, the CV-19 vax is ~6000, that is a huge difference.

There has not been a causal link established for those deaths other than the clotting issue with the J+J vaccine, from which three deaths have been verified.
All that we know is that around 6,000 people have died after receiving a vaccine, we have no idea why they died yet, and close to 200 million people have been vaccinated.

 

[BBQ Guy]

There has not been a causal link established for those deaths other than the clotting issue with the J+J vaccine, from which three deaths have been verified.
All that we know is that around 6,000 people have died after receiving a vaccine, we have no idea why they died yet, and close to 200 million people have been vaccinated.

I think folks can figure out the correlation.
Do you use that same method in your own life, at all, ever?

If so, i think it disingenuous to be dismissive about the possible correlation between the deaths and the medication in the shot they were given. Especially if the person was otherwise healthy and had no outliers for a premature death.

Folks should choose based on their own conclusions.

 

[titsonritz]

There has not been a causal link established for those deaths other than the clotting issue with the J+J vaccine, from which three deaths have been verified.
All that we know is that around 6,000 people have died after receiving a vaccine, we have no idea why they died yet, and close to 200 million people have been vaccinated.

As if they would make that revelation public information in the first place, they would bury it Jimmy Hoffa style.

 

[Bob D]

Why are they not burying the VAERS reports in the first place then?

 

[Bob D]

I think folks can figure out the correlation.
Do you use that same method in your own life, at all, ever?

If so, i think it disingenuous to be dismissive about the possible correlation between the deaths and the medication in the shot they were given. Especially if the person was otherwise healthy and had no outliers for a premature death.

Folks should choose based on their own conclusions.

I do use a multitude of different logical inputs to make decisions. This VAERS number is just one of them. Given it's status as a completely unverified voluntary reporting tool, the extreme nature of fear and misinformation in the public surrounding this vaccine, and the rapid and open way that information about the one verified dangerous side effect was shared , I conclude that this number is probably not a good indicator at all of vaccine safety.

Even if I assume a worst-case scenario where all 6000 of those deaths were caused by the vaccine, 363 million doses have been administered, and 6000 is a very small number. I do not know anyone who had any health problems from the vaccine, I knew at least five people who died from the virus, and several times that many who were hospitalized.

When I remove fear and politics, it seems obvious from my perspective.

 

[made in china]

There's a few of us who don't want a vaccine, simply because we don't. No conspiracy theory, no assertions that the vaccines are harmful. There's people who look at their own experiences and decide we don't need it.

No amount of shouting about your facts or science will change that.

The majority of my interactions with the medical profession have been regretful and negative, I have multiple scars on my body from 15 years of procedures, most have been "whoops...."

They implore me to "trust the science" but why is the weather forecast usually more wrong than right? What happened to 2 weeks to flatten the curve?

Why the heck would I get the vaccine if I must still wear a mask? Why do people not question this?

They try and tell me to separate politics, but politicians who commended, tolerated and applauded BLM and Antifa violence and destruction are the same politicians writing mandates and laws to force me to get a jab...

The news says our local Seattle area hospitals are at a breaking point, then at the end of the article they share that the 4 big hospitals in our region have a total of 209 patients. The greater Seattle area has 1 million people, and 209 is a "breaking point"?

The COVID virus, or a variation of it, will always be in the background for the rest of your lives.

 

[BrentN]

There's a few of us who don't want a vaccine, simply because we don't. No conspiracy theory, no assertions that the vaccines are harmful. There's people who look at their own experiences and decide we don't need it.

No amount of shouting about your facts or science will change that.

The majority of my interactions with the medical profession have been regretful and negative, I have multiple scars on my body from 15 years of procedures, most have been "whoops...."

They implore me to "trust the science" but why is the weather forecast usually more wrong than right? What happened to 2 weeks to flatten the curve?

Why the heck would I get the vaccine if I must still wear a mask? Why do people not question this?

They try and tell me to separate politics, but politicians who commended, tolerated and applauded BLM and Antifa violence and destruction are the same politicians writing mandates and laws to force me to get a jab...

The news says our local Seattle area hospitals are at a breaking point, then at the end of the article they share that the 4 big hospitals in our region have a total of 209 patients. The greater Seattle area has 1 million people, and 209 is a "breaking point"?

The COVID virus, or a variation of it, will always be in the background for the rest of your lives.

Practicing medicine. There's a reason for that term. There may have been a point a few decades back in history where government officials, scientists, politicians, and entities with a dog in the fight, said that Agent Orange was safe to wallow through. Maybe we will find out that mrna vaccines are the way forward and super-effective. Or, maybe not. Unfortunately, dot-gov's track record sucks big-time, and makes them extremely difficult to trust.

 

[Bob D]

I am not trying to convince anyone to get a vaccine, for the record. My post earlier today was about accuracy of data, and then I was asked about my own personal decision making process. Yours is not any of my business or anything I waste any effort even thinking about, much less trying to change. Especially not during an anonymous internet discussion.

To me, from my perspective, given the data I have seen, and knowing that I can never fully verify any of that data, it seemed incredibly obvious that the vaccine was far and away the lesser of the two risks. That's my process, my logic, and my freedom-based decision.

 

[ma96782]

We just need to do what the CCP has done.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....

Pfizer said the U.S. is the first country to grant full approval of its vaccine, in a process that required a 360,000-page application and rigorous inspections. Never before has the FDA has so much evidence to judge a shot's safety.

The formula, jointly developed with Germany's BioNTech, will be marketed under the brand name Comirnaty.

Moderna has also applied to the FDA for full approval of its vaccine. Johnson & Johnson, maker of the third option in the U.S., said it hopes to do so later this year.

US regulators give full approval to Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. gave full approval to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine Monday,...

www.chron.com