US made Zenith MP5 clones

[Ducati_Meister]

I recently acquired a Zenith MP5 clone, which is a US made one, not an MKE import, and I'm wondering if anyone else got one and got some trigger time with it etc. The soft case has a rubber "first batch patch" velcro morale patch on side which I thought was a nice little touch. I'm not sure how these will compare to the PTR US made MP5 clones long term. I'm optimistic that these will be a winner and hope prices will go down a bit as production increases. What are your thoughts on this iconic weapon?

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[nehalemguy]

Post up some pics.

I have the MKE versions in 9mm and 5.56. Great guns. Curious if the stateside versions match up.

-E-

 

[3MTA3]

I recently acquired a Zenith MP5 clone, which is a US made one, not an MKE import, and I'm wondering if anyone else got one and got some trigger time with it etc. The soft case has a rubber "first batch patch" velcro morale patch on side which I thought was a nice little touch. I'm not sure how these will compare to the PTR US made MP5 clones long term. I'm optimistic that these will be a winner and hope prices will go down a bit as production increases. What are your thoughts on this iconic weapon?

The most fun I've had with a machine gun was an MP5K many years ago. MP5's are beautifully balanced and even in full auto was a dream to control - it just floated there.

I love the MP5 platform, but prices are stupid and that has kept me away. Hope these stand up and prices get real for the breed. Please give us your experiences as you have a chance to get range time.

At a $2500 retail IMO it's about $1500 overpriced for what it is and does.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Post up some pics.

I have the MKE versions in 9mm and 5.56. Great guns. Curious if the stateside versions match up.

-E-

It's in waiting period jail for now and I forgot to snap a few pics before I left the shop. Soon enough, I'll have some pics.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

The most fun I've had with a machine gun was an MP5K many years ago. MP5's are beautifully balanced and even in full auto was a dream to control - it just floated there.

I love the MP5 platform, but prices are stupid and that has kept me away. Hope these stand up and prices get real for the breed. Please give us your experiences as you have a chance to get range time.

At a $2500 retail IMO it's about $1500 overpriced for what it is and does.

Yes, indeed, the prices are eye wateringly expensive for a stamped receiver gun, but I couldn't pass up the chance as they are hard to come by and online they are often higher in some places after the bidding wars go nutty. At least you got to shoot one full auto lol, something I haven't done...yet lol.

 

[nehalemguy]

It's in waiting period jail for now..........

Whhhaaaaaatttt???? What state are you in?

-E-

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Washington state mandatory waiting periods for pistols, up to 10 days. They took away the concealed pistol license background check in store with the 1639 BS, so you can't take your handgun home the same day after a proceed via NICS.

 

[3MTA3]

Yes, indeed, the prices are eye wateringly expensive for a stamped receiver gun, but I couldn't pass up the chance as they are hard to come by and online they are often higher in some places after the bidding wars go nutty. At least you got to shoot one full auto lol, something I haven't done...yet lol.

I had a buddy who did NFA sales mostly yo LE. In exchange for loading mags and helping out I got to fire a lot of his stock. along with the MP5K the other notable MG's were the StG 44 and a BAR.

This was just after Reagan modified the NFA to prevent transferable sales of new machine guns, and prices SPIKED! That MP5K went from $600 to $3000 almost overnight.

Even though IMO you are paying above the utility value I don't think you have to worry about losing money. I've been tempted myself.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

I had a buddy who did NFA sales mostly yo LE. In exchange for loading mags and helping out I got to fire a lot of his stock. along with the MP5K the other notable MG's were the StG 44 and a BAR.

This was just after Reagan modified the NFA to prevent transferable sales of new machine guns, and prices SPIKED! That MP5K went from $600 to $3000 almost overnight.

Even though IMO you are paying above the utility value I don't think you have to worry about losing money. I've been tempted myself.

That would have been fun to go to a machine gun shoot. Especially with icons past and present. That whole GCA of 1986 was one of Reagan's less than desired pieces of legislation during in his time in office.
It's funny seeing those ads on GB etc. where there are machine guns and you need that law letter to transfer the piece since it's made after May of '86, weeding out a whole lot of people who can legally acquire such things.
As far as losing money on this piece, you're right, it's way above the utility value, but it should hold its value pretty well given how desirable they are for just being an MP5 platform.

 

[oregonferret]

I recently acquired a Zenith MP5 clone, which is a US made one, not an MKE import, and I'm wondering if anyone else got one and got some trigger time with it etc. The soft case has a rubber "first batch patch" velcro morale patch on side which I thought was a nice little touch. I'm not sure how these will compare to the PTR US made MP5 clones long term. I'm optimistic that these will be a winner and hope prices will go down a bit as production increases. What are your thoughts on this iconic weapon?

They are about to be extinct, due to Copy right name infringements.
Grab some poopmcorn, Get them while you can it's gonna be a good show.

 

[biggie24420]

My friend has a HK SP5, another has the PTR, and the other has a POF. I too have a POF SMGPK (MP5K). Obviously the SP5 is top line….. fit/finish etc. The PTR is nice but I like the POF more. From my research, the POFs are a clone and not a copy like the PTR, and I have no experience with MKE.
I had a POF MP5 (actually had MP5 stamped on it) then I bought my SMGPK. I liked the SMGPK a lot more so I sold the MP5 and made a few dollars.

These guns are obviously expensive but they are a pleasure to shoot and definitely have the second kinda cool thing going for them. I love DIE HARD the movie and the MP5 was my dream gun.I love my two pin metal lower and my finish sucks lol.

when I shoot my SMGPK with my suppressor and 150 gr 9mm, nothing beats it IMO. I ran a MRO green dot for a while and didn't like it…. too bulky. Since it's a pistol, I carry it as a vehicle gun sometimes and I'll conceal carry it (rarely) lol. The SMGPK has been very reliable so far and I hope to be buried with it because I have no plans to ever sell it or turn it in hahahaha.

 

[nehalemguy]

They are about to be extinct, due to Copy right name infringements.
Grab some poopmcorn, Get them while you can it's gonna be a good show.

Can you share what info you have regarding this?

-E-

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I recently acquired a Zenith MP5 clone, which is a US made one, not an MKE import, and I'm wondering if anyone else got one and got some trigger time with it etc. The soft case has a rubber "first batch patch" velcro morale patch on side which I thought was a nice little touch. I'm not sure how these will compare to the PTR US made MP5 clones long term. I'm optimistic that these will be a winner and hope prices will go down a bit as production increases. What are your thoughts on this iconic weapon?

How is zeniths customer service? Biggest thing I have seen on other forums with clones is trying to get them fixed. The horror stories abound with century ap5 and ptr. Just yesterday I read a thread about a ptr that wouldn't work right then sent in to fix now it's completely locked up and can't get bolt open so it has to go back again. The amount of failed stories I have seen I wouldn't touch the clones right now. Can't say I've seen any info on zenith either positive or negative though. I could understand if it was a $400 keltec but ppl are paying $1800 for these clones. One would expect them to work right. But earlier ptr had good reviews so I don't know if it's a more recent QC thing or what.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

How is zeniths customer service? Biggest thing I have seen on other forums with clones is trying to get them fixed. The horror stories abound with century ap5 and ptr. Just yesterday I read a thread about a ptr that wouldn't work right then sent in to fix now it's completely locked up and can't get bolt open so it has to go back again. The amount of failed stories I have seen I wouldn't touch the clones right now. Can't say I've seen any info on zenith either positive or negative though. I could understand if it was a $400 keltec but ppl are paying $1800 for these clones. One would expect them to work right. But earlier ptr had good reviews so I don't know if it's a more recent QC thing or what.

At this point, only time will tell. Sometimes you just have to jump into it and let the chips fall and learn from any experience, positive or negative to get a proper opinion about your piece and the manufacturer customer service aspects.

 

[RX-79G]

How is zeniths customer service? Biggest thing I have seen on other forums with clones is trying to get them fixed. The horror stories abound with century ap5 and ptr. Just yesterday I read a thread about a ptr that wouldn't work right then sent in to fix now it's completely locked up and can't get bolt open so it has to go back again. The amount of failed stories I have seen I wouldn't touch the clones right now. Can't say I've seen any info on zenith either positive or negative though. I could understand if it was a $400 keltec but ppl are paying $1800 for these clones. One would expect them to work right. But earlier ptr had good reviews so I don't know if it's a more recent QC thing or what.

The actual function and build specifications of HK clones is something that both home builders and US small businesses grossly misunderstand. They think that bolt gap is a specification that makes whatever barrel depth acceptable, but the design doesn't work like that. So many of these clones built out of worn parts barely stay in leverage delay before unlocking completely, denting the receiver and battering everything with crazy bolt speeds.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The actual function and build specifications of HK clones is something that both home builders and US small businesses grossly misunderstand. They think that bolt gap is a specification that makes whatever barrel depth acceptable, but the design doesn't work like that. So many of these clones built out of worn parts barely stay in leverage delay before unlocking completely, denting the receiver and battering everything with crazy bolt speeds.

I think your right. So often I see dented receivers with clones then the owner trying to figure how to fix, etc. I don't know much about them but seems to me the design calls for right tolerances, proper materials etc and some clone makers are not up to the task. Tommy built tactical for example I have seen video after video of the t36 where it won't run right. I can't imagine paying that kind of $ (in the t36 case) and then not having a gun that will function reliably.

 

[3MTA3]

From my research, the POFs are a clone and not a copy like the PTR

Curious - what is the difference between a copy and a clone?

 

[RX-79G]

Curious - what is the difference between a copy and a clone?

I have no idea, either. There are essentially four ways to have a non-HK rifle that looks like an HK:

1. Contract factory guns. These are guns made in one of the several plants HK sold to different countries. The original Spingfield SAR3 was made in the Greek HK factory. The original POF parts came from a similar plant in Pakistan. Iran has such a plant, as does France and Portugal (FMP). These are essentially HKs made somewhere else on HK tooling and all the parts were new.

2. US made receivers. The first post-ban Springfield SAR8s were all Greek new parts assembled on a terrible US receiver with some other US small parts. This pattern is relatively rare.

3. Parts guns. Same as 2, but made with demilled used military parts when Germany or other countries sold their G3s for scrap. PTR seems to be a mix of 2 and 3.

4. Real clones. I don't know if these truly exist, but a lot of guns made in Turkey appear to be reverse engineered copies of famous designs from Beretta, CZ, etc. I don't know if the poor specs on some Turkish guns reflect the fact that they made their own tooling, of if they are have HK tooling but have made changes.


But clone and copy are terms people use for anything similar to the original name brand item.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Can you share what info you have regarding this?

-E-

I'm curious as well as to this conjecture about any copyright infringement etc.

 

[Flopsweat]

"Copy" just sounds like it could be less precise than "clone", but I really don't know. I don't know that there is a formal definition in the context of firearms.