Announcement The Atmosphere of Northwest Firearms - Changes

[Joe Link]

BTW, I'm still figuring out the site so I'm sure I'll make mistakes posting ,,so give me heck if necessary!! I still don't quite know how to change my profile pic or edit a post though when I loose my train of thought ???

Welcome back! Looks like you did just fine

Personally, I'm glad to see these changes occurring. I left this community a few years ago because of the very reasons discussed.

QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER

• How do we create a positive, welcoming environment here?
  
• What do we want peoples' initial impressions of our community to be?
  
• What words do we want people to use to describe our community?
• What words do we not want people to use to describe our community?

I'd like to suggest the idea of a posted Mission Statement. Or a "Constitution". A Code that serves as a guideline for behavior. A Pledge maybe. Many of us are veterans and understand those things. Nothing long, or elaborate, but something that says this is who we are, and this is how we behave. It's setting a quality control standard. Anything that falls below that standard gets eliminated. Personally I think strict adherence to the rules needs to be enforced until some precedence has been set. Just like the "Broken Windows" policy, or like raising kids. Principles set when they're young are easier to enforce in the long term.

The battle we are fighting in this forum is the same one we are fighting nationally. There are three groups of people out there. Those devoted Pro-Gun, those devoted Anti-Gun, and those that haven't really spent much time considering either, and are in the middle.

We're likely not going to sway those people in the Anti-Gun community. What we need to focus on are influencing those that are in the undecided/middle. Additionally we need to keep those currently Pro-Gun from not wanting to be associated with a certain type of image. The "Black Helicopter Brigade" as Joe Biden labeled them/us.

Insulting people who disagree with us does not make us look very attractive. Calling people stupid, or idiots does not make us look like reasonable, informed people that others should be listening too. Who wants to be part of a group of people who are angry, and negative, and name calling? And who can only accept the world as their very own narrow view of things? I don't want to be a part of that.

We need to present our argument in an educational, informative, and welcoming way.

I like the idea of having a voting system in place. I don't know if it's like or dislike. I do agree that having "dislike" creates a negative feel to it.

Is there a way to do it like Reddit where people vote a topic up or down? Or "report" or "flag" when something is posted that should be addressed immediately?

It's all going to come down to the population of the members. If there are more of us that want it vs those that want it they way it's become.

Would it be possible to immediately suspend everyone's membership and require that people read and agree to the Pledge before reactivating the membership? It would also be something that new members would be required to do in order to start a membership.

I bet that might weed out some of the bad apples right there. They are not going to want to agree to those things.

Just my two cents.

Fantastic post!

Almost $40 a month is kind of expensive, I'm on disability. What advantage does the Supporting Vendor get you, or are those for someone with a license to sell weapons?

This is strictly for people engaging in commercial activity, everything between home-based holster makers to national chains.

A site with many people is going to have those you agree with and would love to share a beer, get a sandwich with etc. You'll also have those that are a little strong. You just need to let those you feel are to strong/pushy/insulting be who they are, as long as they are not blatantly offensive, leave 'em alone/ignore them. (I don't mean use the ignore feature unless that's your thing) If we got too thin skinned around here we'll kill what I love about the place. Be the bigger person and let it go. Converse with and enjoy those that you like. The bad apples will drift away.

As I've read things for the past 4+ years I've seen very few who need to be gone, and for the most part, those people end up posting very little or not at all now.

This site is a living thing with ebbs and flows, go with it, stay around and we'll all benefit!

Damn! is that prophetic or what?

This is absolutely true, and what I've written is as far as I think we need to go with the 'play nice' rules. Still trying to find a balance

 

[DuneHopper]

Don H. is right. Anonymity is what allows people to behave like jerks.

We use real names in our under 1000 member group, be we are local and know everyone.
I personally do have fear of anti-gun people finding me cause people know me here lived here along time. Part of being private here makes it for a safe enviroment. Really if it has to do with people feeling good and privacy I would lean tad more on privacy but thats just me as its important to me but i'm just one member.

 

[BoonDocks36]

As a Proud Member of the "Gang of Six Five", I am not interested in Any Policies that are, or Create a "Political Correctness".

Sorry, I hang with the Other Four, where we are, I might look a Joke or so m. . . But it will be a Chilly Day in Sheol, to see me post in other matters . . . NOT when moderators (unNamed) do NOT use a Blind Form of justice, and delete Conservative Members Posts, MORE OFTEN, than Liberal Posts.

George Washington used Both Pen & Guns, but Only ONE developed the End to the Revolution and then ONLY was the Pen, again Picked up, to CREATE a Nation for Free Men . . .

Today, WE ~Are AGAIN~ on that same ~Edge~ and to Shut Down any Speech, to Keep us a Free People, is Counter Patriotism.

bottom line, yes, this is Your House Joe, but the Butler told my friend he farted, and Now, he is GONE, Forever. He passed gas, ~MUST BE~ an ignorant old fool . . .

Long Live the lost member, of the Gang of Six. Taku, I miss you.

philip, Christian. Patriot & Conservative because of the first 2 . . .

 

[coyote223]

Yes, realize that not all liberals are anti-gun and not all conservatives are pro-gun. The "Liberals need to die" sentiment needs to be scrapped. Such broad brush tactics are a benefit to no one.

But most anti-gun politicians are liberal progressive democrats. All anti-gun bills are pushed by "D's," along party lines. Yeah the death wishes need to be stopped,,,

Holding hands around the campfire singing kumbaya, pretending the dems aren't stabbing us in the back is dumb. Its almost as if mark suckerburg took over NWFA,,,

 

[etrain16]

But most anti-gun politicians are liberal progressive democrats. All anti-gun bills are pushed by "D's," along party lines. Yeah the death wishes need to be stopped,,,

Holding hands around the campfire singing kumbaya, pretending the dems aren't stabbing us in the back is dumb. Its almost as if mark suckerburg took over NWFA,,,

Here's my take on it. Joe has not asked anyone to ignore anti-gun folks. He has not said we can't discuss anti-gun folks or their constant attack on our rights. He has a legal and political area here just for that purpose. He hasn't asked us to do anything that would cause us to turn our backs on the anti-gun folks.

He has asked that people be polite here. That means no name-calling, and no disparaging labels. What's funny is that name-calling is a huge tactic of our enemies, and it works for them, but when we do the same, it backfires and get used against us, pretty much a double standard, but the truth. So why do we feel the need to do the same here? We need as many pro-gun folks united in single purpose as possible. Our enemies are anyone that attacks our rights - regardless of party affiliation. I've met strong pro-gun folks from very different political backgrounds - and yes, they are willing to vote pro-gun - and that is what we need if we hope to fight off the attack on our rights.

What is curious to me for those that don't like this rule is this - can you honestly point to any real examples of where name-calling and verbal attacks have done anything to help our rights in this state? What's always odd to me is that name calling and nasty politics seems to work great for the anti's - but it doesn't work for us - it works against us. Our enemy knows how to turn our in-fighting against us - they are masters of it. I know it's hurting us because the anti's use our behavior against us. Agree or not, it's probably about time to give this a chance. No one is asking you to sit in a circle, hold hands and sing kumbaya with people you don't necessarily agree with, they're only asking you to keep the name calling under control. I don't think that's asking too much, and I don't think it's going to hurt our fight against the anti's. If all we have to fight them are nasty names (and I do think some of them have earned them, by the way), then we really need some new tools at our disposal.

Let's work on getting ALL gun owners in the NW on the same page in the hope that we can turn this around at the ballot box. Let's hope we can get everyone, regardless of party or political affiliation to recognize how important these rights are to all of us, and to vote for those rights. If we're fighting each other, then we're not fighting them, and in doing so, we're handing them victory after victory.

 

[DuneHopper]

As a Proud Member of the "Gang of Six Five", I am not interested in Any Policies that are, or Create a "Political Correctness".
Sorry, I hang with the Other Four, where we are, I might look a Joke or so m. . . But it will be a Chilly Day in Sheol, to see me post in other matters . . . NOT when moderators (unNamed) do NOT use a Blind Form of justice, and delete Conservative Members Posts, MORE OFTEN, than Liberal Posts.
George Washington used Both Pen & Guns, but Only ONE developed the End to the Revolution and then ONLY was the Pen, again Picked up, to CREATE a Nation for Free Men . . .
Today, WE ~Are AGAIN~ on that same ~Edge~ and to Shut Down any Speech, to Keep us a Free People, is Counter Patriotism.
bottom line, yes, this is Your House Joe, but the Butler told my friend he farted, and Now, he is GONE, Forever. He passed gas, ~MUST BE~ an ignorant old fool . . .
Long Live the lost member, of the Gang of Six. Taku, I miss you.
philip, Christian. Patriot & Conservative because of the first 2 . . .

I get the passion in your post truly do, but not sure what being civil to a human being and asking people to be civil and to try and be adults is a wrong thing. Are not a nation of free men given the right to be free with in their own thoughts ? Ive only been here a short time but seldom see any bias, in fact I was able to get quite open and honest about UCC and the liberal-antis and not one post was removed in what I think was a dozen+ pages of people and my self posting. If a time to censor a conservative was the plan I gave a great opportunity and was not once given crap by anyone over all that I posted. I can't say I ever had my very strong 2nd Amendment stance crapped on or removed by anyone. I think what it comes down to is name calling, and rude behavior that gets the moderators involved, not saying that is your doing or your gangs. But I have not been censored once when it came to my 2nd rights and I am careful to be professional so my point stays intact and not removed because of some behavioral violations. Had the opposite ever happened I would agree but it hasn't.

 

[deadeye]

Do that and I, for one, will be deleting all the posts and photos relating to my guns and moving on.

Read right past this one did ya.......https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...-potential-changes.215102/page-4#post-1408764

 

[Don H]

Do that and I, for one, will be deleting all the posts and photos relating to my guns and moving on.

Don't worry, it won't happen. Just as we don't want to stand by what we say, "changing tone" ends when it means there is no tone left to change.

 

[Don H]

^^ See, told you so.

 

[IheartSig]

But most anti-gun politicians are liberal progressive democrats. All anti-gun bills are pushed by "D's," along party lines. Yeah the death wishes need to be stopped,,,

Holding hands around the campfire singing kumbaya, pretending the dems aren't stabbing us in the back is dumb. Its almost as if mark suckerburg took over NWFA,,,

So alienating the handful of pro gun Democrats or Liberals through name calling and dismissal of opinion based on party association is justified as long as we get to all pat each others backs about how much better we are than them?

Cant we all be gun owners and enthusiasts here? Cant we enjoy that? Why fight amongst each other?

 

[IheartSig]

As a Proud Member of the "Gang of Six Five", I am not interested in Any Policies that are, or Create a "Political Correctness".

Sorry, I hang with the Other Four, where we are, I might look a Joke or so m. . . But it will be a Chilly Day in Sheol, to see me post in other matters . . . NOT when moderators (unNamed) do NOT use a Blind Form of justice, and delete Conservative Members Posts, MORE OFTEN, than Liberal Posts.

George Washington used Both Pen & Guns, but Only ONE developed the End to the Revolution and then ONLY was the Pen, again Picked up, to CREATE a Nation for Free Men . . .

Today, WE ~Are AGAIN~ on that same ~Edge~ and to Shut Down any Speech, to Keep us a Free People, is Counter Patriotism.

bottom line, yes, this is Your House Joe, but the Butler told my friend he farted, and Now, he is GONE, Forever. He passed gas, ~MUST BE~ an ignorant old fool . . .

Long Live the lost member, of the Gang of Six. Taku, I miss you.

philip, Christian. Patriot & Conservative because of the first 2 . . .

THIS is exactly what is indicative of the problem at hand though Boondocks36. People shouldn't have to fear reprisal from a "gang" for posting their opinions. Logical and respectful conversation and even debate hinges on the ability to listen to all viewpoints and discuss them based on merit and fact, not belittling and ostracizing.

 

[forefathersrback]

As a Proud Member of the "Gang of Six Five", I am not interested in Any Policies that are, or Create a "Political Correctness".

Sorry, I hang with the Other Four, where we are, I might look a Joke or so m. . . But it will be a Chilly Day in Sheol, to see me post in other matters . . . NOT when moderators (unNamed) do NOT use a Blind Form of justice, and delete Conservative Members Posts, MORE OFTEN, than Liberal Posts.

George Washington used Both Pen & Guns, but Only ONE developed the End to the Revolution and then ONLY was the Pen, again Picked up, to CREATE a Nation for Free Men . . .

Today, WE ~Are AGAIN~ on that same ~Edge~ and to Shut Down any Speech, to Keep us a Free People, is Counter Patriotism.

bottom line, yes, this is Your House Joe, but the Butler told my friend he farted, and Now, he is GONE, Forever. He passed gas, ~MUST BE~ an ignorant old fool . . .

Long Live the lost member, of the Gang of Six. Taku, I miss you.

philip, Christian. Patriot & Conservative because of the first 2 . . .

Mr, Boondocks36, I share your patriotism, And I agree, I miss Mr. TAKU also. Others say their posts have never been censored, mine & others have been censored!!!! { and deleted} I will speak only of mine!
Not because of name calling, or rude behavior, just for simply voicing my opinion! Which must have been viewed as, politically incorrect! Wow, times have certainly changed. Remember the time when the Master Craftsman taught an apprentice the correct way? We are now living in a time when the apprentice, is teaching an apprentice! and my message to them, "You're an errand boy, sent by a grocery clerk, to collect an over due bill."

Forefathersrback, not in, not out, just me!!!!

 

[IheartSig]

I might be thick in the head here, but what are you saying?

I didn't get it either.

 

[BLUE COLLAR IRONS]

I agree. Things are horrible. I also agree with the "outward" hating. We all know how we feel about these clowns but we need to keep it to ourselves. I wouldn't want to go to a place I didn't feel welcome. We are perpetuating our own stereotype. I used to feed into posting anti liberal anti Muslim stuff on FB but it does no good. People are so brain washed u will never change their minds. It's cognetive dissonance on a mass scale. So it's better to keep your mouth shut and change things by being a member of the NRA and giving them money. Attending rallies. And keeping quiet. The silent assassin if u will. Keep your friend close and your enemies closer. I don't hate liberals anymore. I feel sorry for them cause they have been duped. So I stopped trying to wake them up. Not my job anymore. Just causes division. So yes. I agree. Cause they will be looking to us to save them one day anyway.

 

[IheartSig]

LMAO Even in a thread created to point out the issue and come up with possible solutions, members cannot refrain from using the same insults and diminutive labels.

 

[308]

LMAO Even in a thread created to point out the issue and come up with possible solutions, members cannot refrain from using the same insults and diminutive labels.

A friend mentioned crap brownies. The recipe calls for all of the normal ingredients with the addition of one tiny teaspoon of dog crap. Now one might complain that the fact that there is one unsavory and disgusting element does not mean we shouldn't enjoy the entire recipe. After all, it is only one thing that causes the grief and how unfriendly is it of me to point out the error, the wrongness, the absurdity of including that foul bit when, if I were a gentleman, I would disregard the poison and speak only of the merits of the totality of the recipe...the fine chocolate and the delicate texture of the whole product.

To expect people to disregard those things the liberal/democrat party pushes, no forces, down the throats of the conservative is ludicrous. Am I to embrace a person because he loves to shoot a Glock like me, but just the day before was at a rally supporting planned parenthood, or working for I'mReadyFor Hillary2016? Sorry, I don't think so. Now, will I be kind to that person, yes. Will I respect them as a human, yes, but I highly doubt we will be shooting buddies or great family friends, because in the end what is right is more than firearms related...and if one does not know what is right and true, then there is nothing further to discuss.

 

[IheartSig]

I don't think anyone is asking you to be best friends man, I think the point is we don't have to be bubblegums about it. We don't have to gang up on people with our "gang", we don't have to belittle them and call people names instead of replying with logic and opinion. We don't have to attack people we don't agree with. We don't have to send perfect strangers PM's attacking them.

If the guy next to you wants to eat a crap brownie, it doesn't mean you have to. Let him eat it and think it is the best brownie in the world. If he wants to mock you for not eating crap brownies then he is in the wrong and should be dealt with.

Either way, regardless of what brownie we eat individually, we can still be civil to each other.

 

[308]

I don't think anyone is asking you to be best friends man, I think the point is we don't have to be bubblegums about it. We don't have to gang up on people with our "gang", we don't have to belittle them and call people names instead of replying with logic and opinion. We don't have to attack people we don't agree with. We don't have to send perfect strangers PM's attacking them.

If the guy next to you wants to eat a crap brownie, it doesn't mean you have to. Let him eat it and think it is the best brownie in the world. If he wants to mock you for not eating crap brownies then he is in the wrong and should be dealt with.

Either way, regardless of what brownie we eat individually, we can still be civil to each other.

I agree. I have been the Site Admin across the street for many years. We have had quite a few intelligent and well spoken members who could not refrain from ganging up on anyone with an opposing viewpoint. Granted, a few of those with opposing viewpoints were well known instigators and members of DUng, however, they kept their toes back one atomic particle from the rules violation line and it irritated our members to no end that I would not simply ban them. I spoke with members via PM and encouraged them to slay their opponents with words of truth and fact, but in the end it was easier for them to flame/curse/whatever, and when they were chastised, they left for forums with more freedom to flame away at the opposition. The site I mentioned in the beginning...it used to be the largest and most popular firearms related site on the web. Now it is a ghost town.

 

[DuneHopper]

Mr, Boondocks36, I share your patriotism, And I agree, I miss Mr. TAKU also. Others say their posts have never been censored, mine & others have been censored!!!! { and deleted} I will speak only of mine! Not because of name calling, or rude behavior, just for simply voicing my opinion! Which must have been viewed as, politically incorrect! Wow, times have certainly changed. Remember the time when the Master Craftsman taught an apprentice the correct way? We are now living in a time when the apprentice, is teaching an apprentice! and my message to them, "You're an errand boy, sent by a grocery clerk, to collect an over due bill."
Forefathersrback, not in, not out, just me!!!!

Hi @Forefathersback I think you are getting to where people need to read and understand your post gives great insight, I noted you did not mention at anytime your 2nd Amendment right was censored, just your non-firearm political views and I can say that is going to vary person to person and ergo is why I have said in my opinion non-2nd political related should not be on a gun enthusiast site( my opinion). Its very clear reading Boondocks last post as well that this is exactly were the problem is at. I know the choice has been made to allow political stuff here still but as we can see the group is divided of political vs 2nd Amendment rights. Some say they are all in the same, some say not. Those that have been censored have only been done when it was a non-2nd Amendment issue. I am mid to the right politically not far right but I get and agree with allot of post I have seen and some even removed. But I don't post to them often or respond cause I didn't see this as the place to discuss it. but I have yet to read anyones claim when they were talking about gun laws, or gun rights their posts were removed and that should tell allot about where we are as a group right ?

 

[DuneHopper]

Secondly, not naming names but many of us belong to other firearm groups online I do under other aliases.
I am willing to bet if we looked at the members who cause or have caused discourse here they have done so elsewhere and either been reprimanded there, banned or both. And willing to also bet the aggressors here, may have there also been on the top of lists of deleted post members. Being opinionated is great lol, just ask anyone who knows me offline I can be a really hardarse. But this is not my sandbox. I also look at stuff like this if one thinks this site is not conservative right winged enough then start ones own group? I am sure no one here would be offended if others wanted their own sandbox its a free world and all and then everyone is happy. Yet most don't as they want others to do as they want and are not willing to put time and money like Joe Link does into a project. OFF, NWFA and other groups and organization started because of a project they wanted not a project they want to be told they have to have. Part of the ownership freedom is what drives group owners. Not being told by everyone how they must think. Ok climbing off soap box.