National The ATF Attempts to Deny Non-Binary and Trans Americans Guns

[bbbass]

IMO if you can't figure out what you are, you probably won't know which end the bullets go in... so there's that.

Oh stop, just kidding.

 

[EPS]

The PROBLEM is allot of trap shooting or trap shotgun use bianary triggers.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Legally, people have a sex. It is what is on your birth certificate or if you legally change it, it is what it was changed to. It's not hard. All legal paperwork has it just about, and they only care about the legal sex, which can be different than sexual expression. It is legally quite simple.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Even science... has found that sometimes some humans just dont develop fully until they hit puberty.. or even they never do... its not possible to be 100% unambigous down there, 100% of the time for infants.
Granted that is a real tiny percentage of the U.S. population, (or possibly, it maybe reflect some of the problems with being arbritary in terms of assigning specifics to a newborn, when sexual characteristics starts developing more fully in puberty )

I know of a couple of honest to goodness nonbinary persons, because they were not "fully formed" at birth and when they hit puberty, their bodies produced the opposite hormones and developed the other way from what they were assigned at birth. Interestingly, they were also infertile/unable to produce offspring, simply because their downstairs never developed fully.
I do also know of one only one at that; that had vestiges of both sets... again, that person originally was to be a twin but apparently absorbed their twin's cells early on to develop into a single being... its called chimerism... however it is exceedingly rare case where the chimera developed both sets down there but is unable to fully form one or the other. She consider herself a woman though.

Technically that is the only biological third gender, intersexed, which is quite rare. (and probably should be an option. I suspect legally they have a legal gender though. It is very different than waking up one morning and deciding you feel more like a guy than a girl today. (some gender fluids change multiple times a day what they want you to recognize them as. Whether you believe this or not, it is very difficult for me to deal with at work.)

 

[BillM]

Everybody wants to equate sex with gender, but they are two seperate things.

Sex is physical. "Hardware" Dangly parts? Male No dangly parts? Female
That is what 4473 Question 6 asks--Male or female. Drop your pants, look down,
and check the appropriate box.

Gender is whatever you think you are. "Software" Trans,Bi, Poly, Cis-whatever floats your boat.

 

[CamoDeafie]

A big problem today is tying gender identity with biologic equipment

If people could just.. agree.. that gender identity does not need to be tied inexorably to what a person is born with... maybe it'd be better overall?

Really... I'm still of the opinion... for govt forms... the only reason to require "sex/gender" on forms is to either get funding for "affirmative action" or use for statistics, in which funding is released....

On the other hand...

The ERA thing for women? Equal Rights as men, meaning no more paid maternal leave, no more free daycare for mothers... put them on the exact same playing level as the men... including being asked to work overtime, overnight, weekends.

Of course the Leftist Feminists dont want that.

But an alternate which none of the Feminists are admitting may be better... is to give men the same privilieges and rights as women.. in terms of giving paid paternal leave for one...


Sorry for off topic.

Back to topic. Do away with requiring sex on forms, every American should be happy

 

[bbbass]

I identify as "bender fluid"... sometimes I feel like vodka, other times beer, or maybe whiskey or even Irish Creme or Coffe la Foo Foo. I wake up a few days after these feelings and can't figure out where I've been, etc. I don't consider this to be problematic except for the reactions I get at work and from friends and family... but I want them to respect my decisions and accept me for whom I yam.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I am of the opinion that only the legal sex, (whichever box is checked on your birth certificate unless you have legally changed it) should matter to government. Also, as a healthcare worker it is really what matters to me. I care if you have ovarian or prostate cancer, not who you like or what you wear or look like. How could your parts kill or maim you matters to me. Therein ends my interest. I am more offended that we ask race personally. I think it should be illegal to ask on government forms.

 

[Alexx1401]

This was one of those threads I loved reading. Many of the responses are great laughs.

 

[bbbass]

No one who is, knows, has family, friends, etc that are trans or otherwise are suprised by the blatant transphobic and just out right straight white christian male focused community that dominates guns.

I have a relative that is trans and I have harsh feelings towards him for his narcissistic selfish OCD that drove him to abuse his son and continue to abuse his daughter's love. He never cared, and still does not care what they went thru at school and in the community. To look at it, it is obvious the it's an abomination. I'm not afraid of it tho. Not in the least bit phobic, just disgusted.

So....... I guess you are strait-white-Christian-male-gunownerphobic then eh?

 

[slimmer13]

You're welcome to believe as you wish, still makes you anti trans. Next you'll be telling me you can pray the gay away. Sex and gender are not the same thing, and it's easy to pick and choose how you interpret without spending any time educating yourself outside of your preferred "facts." I don't expect you to change, but like hell I'll let you say it without response. No one who is, knows, has family, friends, etc that are trans or otherwise are suprised by the blatant transphobic and just out right straight white christian male focused community that dominates guns. I hope more gay, trans, queer, poc, atheist, etc buy a lot more guns and learn to use them as is their right as American citizens.

Theres no "preferred facts", only facts. I welcome facts, please post some rather than all the "phobic" and "anti" rhetoric. I dont even really know what your argument is?

 

[bbbass]

Your relatice just sounds like an bubblegum, not really a symptom of being trans.

No, but when guns are an American right and the constant pearl clutching of self proclaimed god loving straight white guys that can't help but post bigotry gatekeep gun ownership it's hard to ignore. It's kinda hard to take that whole lot seriously on these threads when they claim guns are for everyone, then show quite the opposite attitude.

If you knew me better, you'd know that I hate trendy jargon... IMO the use of such cliched terminology is a turnoff/dogwhistle/buttonpush that limits real communication.

1. Are you a young person?
2. Did you come here to fight?
3. Did you come here to straighten self proclaimed God loving straight white guys out?
4. Do you have any idea how racist and bigoted you come across?
5. You forgot to mention us old guys that refuse to change and refuse to accept the inevitability of the coming wave.
6. Do you own any firearms?
7. Do you identify as progressive?

 

[CLT65]

Wow, that's all I can say. Nobody is allowed to even have an opinion anymore without being accused of bigotry and phobias. This sort of stuff doesn't seem quite appropriate for this forum, to me at least.

 

[slimmer13]

Wow, that's all I can say. Nobody is allowed to even have an opinion anymore without being accused of bigotry and phobias. This sort of stuff doesn't seem quite appropriate for this forum, to me at least.

That's the new normal. Attack when presented with logical factual arguments.

 

[bbbass]

1. Nope
2. Nope, but I will against that which I find ignorant even if my opinion is in the minority.
3. Nope, that's as pointless as them trying to straighten me out. We are who we are, and sometimes that's at odds not only in personal values, but beliefs.
4. Not surprising from this website.
5. Yes, most likely more then you.
6. Nope.

Yeah, I find a lot of ignorance existing in the world. I get outraged but it does me no good.

5. That's an ignorant answer that doesn't become a XE of your obvious intelligence.

God bless you.

 

[Geardo]

I agree, outrage is a waste generally. I identify as a male, so ill appreciate if you respect my pronouns. Rule number 1. Be excellent. And may Satan bless you.

Lol WTF?

 

[bbbass]

I agree, outrage is a waste generally. I identify as a male, so ill appreciate if you respect my pronouns. Rule number 1. Be excellent. And may Satan bless you.

Well, how the fricky fracky am I supposed to know how you wish pronouns to be used. No disrespect was intended. I was making the effort to be excellent to you, while trying to be a modern pronoun addresser. I guess I see how useless that is.

Speaking of respect, I see you capitalize Satan but not God. Nice. Anyway, Shaitan has already blessed me... so there's that.

 

[Tangent123123]

 

[x2ndxall]

Your relatice just sounds like an bubblegum, not really a symptom of being trans.

*relative

 

[CLT65]

This sure went downhill fast. The stereotype is hateful bigots on the right, but they certainly exist on the left as well. What's the purpose of this here?

It reminds me a little of an incident my wife experienced on facebook a while back. She commented on something, innocently enough and not disrespectful but not entirely supportive of the currently popular views on gender. She was viciously attacked and excoriated by a hateful, self-righteous, SJW activist.

You can no longer hold different views and get along by simply respecting others and their right to a different perspective. You have to accept and celebrate their views or you are suddenly Hitler incarnate.

This sort of thing does nothing to change anyone's mind. All it does is make the whole conversation more hateful and toxic. I don't care for self-righteous bigots on either side of the issue. Surely we can have differing perspectives on a variety of things, and still show some basic respect and courtesy? Maybe?

The whole Satan thing was sure a nice way to throw the whole thing out the window. Wow.