National The ATF Attempts to Deny Non-Binary and Trans Americans Guns

[Joe Link]

The ATF Attempts to Deny Non-Binary and Trans Americans Guns

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[x2ndxall]

I'm having a hard time seeing a problem with this one.

 

[Joe13]

"How can forcing a prospective gun owner to select "male" or "female" make any difference in identifying them when they have already provided a driver's license, a home address, place of birth, full name, and even social security number? "

I gotta agree with the above...

The more people with guns the better and I don't support restrictions for any reason.

Give everyone a gun and let God sort it out afterwards.

 

[hatchj]

The form has to be properly filled out. It's not my problem if you can't fill a legal document out properly. I don't get to leave things blank at work just because I don't agree with the options given.

 

[Caveman Jim]

It's record keeping 101, statistics is where it's at....

 

[RicInOR]

Did the legislature not anticipate non-binary individuals or collectives when they penned 18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts ?

 

[CamoDeafie]

I think one of the issues here is that
1) your preference dont match what the State/Fed have you on paper as (m/f)

2) technically its illegal to lie on the ATF forms

The State/Fed doesn't care about your personal preferences or feelings

I for one would like them to do away with "sex/gender" on the ATF forms...

1) you're an American? Cool.
2) never been convicted of a violent crime? Good to go.
Otherwise, the State/Feds can go pound sand.

 

[CountryGent]

I know that one of the relatively recent changes to Form 4473 was changing "Gender" to "Sex". I wonder if that was an attempt to address issues like this? No idea, but I suppose it is possible.

And, indeed, the 2A is for all law-abiding citizens of these United States.

 

[jbett98]

Check both boxes.

 

[ob1]

I know that one of the relatively recent changes to Form 4473 was changing "Gender" to "Sex". I wonder if that was an attempt to address issues like this? No idea, but I suppose it is possible.

I had problems last time with that question#6 change. I tried to use an honest answer but it wouldn't fit.

Sex NO (if my wife finds out I just bought another gun)​

 

[x2ndxall]

It's pretty easy for most to see if they were born with an innie or an outie... If you can't find it, ask your doctor. It's simple.

If the arguement is whether the question should even be on there, well that's different.

 

[Stomper]

I had problems last time with that question#6 change. I tried to use an honest answer but it wouldn't fit.

Sex NO (if my wife finds out I just bought another gun)​

You're supposed to answer that #6 question with, "yes please!"

 

[Quezun]

Am I the only one here who had to google "non-binary"? There are just too many name for me to keep up with now.

 

[x2ndxall]

Why's that? Should not all Americans have their right to bear arms?

That's not at all what I said or eluded to. If you don't want the question on there, fine. Id be be ok with not even having the damn forms. But it is. And we do.

It's a really easy to answer question as it appears on the various forms. What we don't need is another form with 167,000 gender options. There's only two. It's simple science.

 

[DB is Here]

Am I the only one here who had to google "non-binary"? There are just too many name for me to keep up with now.

Nope, I just recently had to Google cisgenger & non-cisgender...crazy world we live in.

 

[x2ndxall]

And, indeed, the 2A is for all law-abiding citizens of these United States.

Of which there are 2 genders/sexes.
Agreed.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Even science... has found that sometimes some humans just dont develop fully until they hit puberty.. or even they never do... its not possible to be 100% unambigous down there, 100% of the time for infants.
Granted that is a real tiny percentage of the U.S. population, (or possibly, it maybe reflect some of the problems with being arbritary in terms of assigning specifics to a newborn, when sexual characteristics starts developing more fully in puberty )

I know of a couple of honest to goodness nonbinary persons, because they were not "fully formed" at birth and when they hit puberty, their bodies produced the opposite hormones and developed the other way from what they were assigned at birth. Interestingly, they were also infertile/unable to produce offspring, simply because their downstairs never developed fully.
I do also know of one only one at that; that had vestiges of both sets... again, that person originally was to be a twin but apparently absorbed their twin's cells early on to develop into a single being... its called chimerism... however it is exceedingly rare case where the chimera developed both sets down there but is unable to fully form one or the other. She consider herself a woman though.

 

[slimmer13]

[


I'd just consider that transphobic and in general close minded to the obvious and unstoppable changes happening in societal views towards gender. I of course support your right to have such an opinion, but do disagree. An American no matter how they identify should be allowrd their basic rights.

Nobody is trying to deny anyone their basic rights.

I'm usually pretty inline with most of what Cato puts out, but this one I couldn't disagree more.

The fact is gender (or sex) is a criteria for identifying someone. The fact is that there are two genders, unless you are born with certain physiological abnormalities where you have physical attributes of both sexes, but that is also a biological status. That is basic biology (funny how the left always accuses the right of being science deniers).

Now if you have a disorder which makes you not feel like the body you have, fine. Live your life any way you please, get surgery, take hormones, whatever. Nobody cares, but you can't expect the world to pretend along with you. I mean where does it end, letting trans folk fight women in MMA cough Cyborg. Being accused of being a transphobe if you dont want to date someone with a Y chromosome?

 

[bolus]

Am I the only one here who had to google "non-binary"? There are just too many name for me to keep up with now.

I thought it was an article on banning non-binary triggers in guns from a place called "Transamerica" which was even more confusing

 

[Dungannon]

The possibility of an alt-left mob demonstrating for 2A rights has a certain weird appeal to me. Not that there is anything wrong with having a weird appeal